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There's Nothing Vegan about War

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/01/14/theres-nothing-vegan-about-war

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Vegans have been murdering each other over resources for (at least) thousands of years.
Veganism most likely started as keep the cow / goat etc… get the milk strategy. The holy philosophy was sold the masses in scripture to preserve the kings property.

We need more war. One last world war. All the war loving people should fight each other to the last one. We will build the greatest monument in their honor. Then they seppuku. Sorry no kaishakunin available, truly honorable. We destroy the monument and live in peace. The end.

This article reminds me of complaints about greenwashing in the military. If the military spends money on say figuring out how to run bio-fuels in tanks or planes, there are those that use this as an opportunity to use a different angle against the military. Seems pointless to me. The angle to go after to the military is clear - the actual unethical, illegal, and counterproductive actions taken by (some) country’s militaries. And plus, these efforts do sometimes result in useful transfer to the civilian world and aren’t actual weapons production.

I think had I been the age to be drafted into the Vietnam war, I would have gone to Canada, but luckily for me I’ve never been forced into that decision. And though I know several here vehemently dismiss the argument of the military being the last large refuge for the poor in the US (e.g. @SuspiraDeProfundis), I still find those cases of interest and am often sympathetic to some of these people (the most recent being a woman who gave an interesting interview with Ryan Knight at ~https://www.stitcher.com/show/amped-up-with-proud-resister/episode/erica-gordon-gets-amped-up-with-ryan-knight-79392503).

Of course I encourage everyone to avoid military service in this country if at all possible. You give up your freedom and you very well may be asked to completely transgress a reasonable person’s ethics (an armed force that actually just defended the country).

It is a great time to be vegan though - I agree with that part of the article. I hope better times are yet to come. I watched Kiss the Ground recently (definitely not a vegan-friendly movie, though they have a few excerpts of vegans making their case), and I did appreciate Michael Pollan say that no matter how many people become vegan, we need to cut around 75% of the meat production in this country (I’d say more). I hope to see these kinds of declines.

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Many thanks to CodePink, once again, for highlighting the sheer hypocrisy that we call Americana. Other countries may have done it prior but we’ll be the ones to supersize it, especially if it’s a bad idea.

The hazard of Big Tent Progressive Policy is clearly illustrated here. The conflation of the anti-war message - inarguably the ultimately significant and perennial one - with a low-tier “nice to have” Progressive ideal in the form of veganism simply makes us look like idiots.

Then again, ol’ Elizabeth Warren stated that she would work to “green” the military if elected … .

'Nuff said.

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An appetite for moral asymmetry


I just do not think that because a person poor or living in poverty that it justifies going to foreign countries to kill people that are poor.

I really do not see how anyone can disagree with this and no matter how it spun this is what the poverty draft is all about. It is the MIC saying to poor people “we can help you escape poverty if you kill some foreigners for us”.

Again all Military forces of the world are not the same as the US Military. Many are there just to defend their own territory. That is not what the US Military about and everyone knows this.


It’s hard for me to put myself in her shoes because I grew up with never a want let alone a need not being met (it was a struggle for me to not be spoiled, which I was, but I hope I grew out of it). She figured out how to go in the military in a way that she would be unlikely to have to kill anyone - she operated sonar in a sub. It’s not a bad podcast listen, but I don’t expect you to follow the link - it was more for anyone else who might be reading.

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I grew up with no running water. No telephone. Our house was old and in winter we would wake to frost on the inner walls. When we had a bath we used to haul water pail by pail from a well some 150 yards from the house and heat it on the stove. We would pour that hot water into a metal tub and the youngest would jump in and bathe. We would add a second pail and the second would jump in and bathe.

The house was so cold in the winter Mom could not wash the floors as they turned to ice. When we woke up to go to school in the winter the Water cistern we had was iced at the top. We poured the water into a basin and washed in ice cold water. (Remember this Alberta so winters were long. Dad and grandpa eventually added more insulation to the house and it made things better)

I never felt the desire to join an organization to kill people to escape that. Now at that time The Canadian Military was pretty hands off and did not involve itself in foreign wars so had I done so or some other done so it would not be the same as what happens in the USA where they have been waging war for 92 percent of their history and where it estimated the US Military has been responsible for some 30 million people killed in foreign lands since the close of WW2.

One more time. It not poor people in Vietnam or Iraq or Libya or Granada or Somalia that caused that person you mentioned to grow up in poverty in the USA. So why should they be killed because people in the US try and escape poverty?

If you want to go to war to escape poverty wage it on the Capitalists at home that are causing it.

As to those Submarines , they are armed with Cruise Missiles. The US launches them with regularity against “The enemy” in those countries they wage war on. Indeed they sent one to the gulf just recently to “contain iranian Aggression”. If it launches its full arsenal thousands would be killed.


Why do you refer to “foreign” countries? It’s considered a pejorative by many people – me being one of them – and part of the Military Industrial Complex “Enemy of the Day” thinking. They’re only “foreign” or unknown because of one’s wilful-ignorance about said country. With the Internet, there is a plethora of information available today about any country one might be interested in. A better word is international countries and its people are internationals. These are countries on the Earth. The Earth is not “foreign” so why should certain countries be deemed “foreign?” It reminds me of the pejorative term “third world countries.” That outdated Cold War era language. There’s only one world that we all live on so how can there be a “third world?”

Foreign means Located away from one’s native country.

It the proper use of the word. It is not a pejorative.

That the Earth is the Earth is not relevant here. Humankind has created Countries .

You’re using the conservative dictionary definition of the word that I’ve heard countless times from the far-right and right-wing. Mine is the more current and updated version or the politically-correct version.

Again immaterial. Your right wing in the USA sees the word “Socialist” as a pejorative. Other peoples do not see it that way. I am a Socialist.

Your far right uses “Black Americans” as a pejorative. When you change your language and the words you use to describe something because of the “Far right and alt right” in the USA then you are playing their game and agreeing the words mean something other then what they mean.

Foreigner, Socialist, Black Americans, First Nations peoples , Liberals and so on are not “dirty words” just because the far right insists they are.

You are letting THEM define language.

Someone is pulling your leg in my opinion.

The institutions of higher learning clearly understand this, which is why many schools and student-exchange programs now call themselves “International Student Exchange Program” and not “Foreign Student Exchange Program.”


Foreign Exchange Student Canada. Spending an Academic Year or a Semester as an exchange student in Canada means living with a host family and attending high school for 10-11 months or 4 to 6 months.


A foreign exchange program in France is an experience you’ll never forget.


Foreign exchange student in China

On your student exchange to China, you will saturate yourself with Chinese language and culture. Nearly a billion people speak Chinese, and with China’s growing economic and political importance, investing in your Mandarin skills is going to pay off handsomely. Your student exchange program to China is well-balanced, including several hours of Mandarin study each day, a calendar filled with excursions and cultural visits, free time to explore on your own, and a homestay with a Chinese family or a room in a student residence. A student exchange program in China can be intimidating, but with us by your side, you’ll never need to worry.

Try this one:


In my comment, I said “many schools…” I didn’t say all, which is what you seem to be implying. Perhaps you should read that again.

Upon reflection, I’m sorry I brought this up to begin with. I had wrongly assumed that someone on this site would be more receptive and open-minded to it. Unfortunately that’s not the case, at least with you.

You are the one that responded to me in the first place questioning the use of “foreigners” when that is a problem unique to the USA where they also turned things like liberal, socialist and Muslim into dirty words.

I do not believe people should keep changing how words defined just because some racists on the far right force the issue by turning the word into something it is not. In Nazi Germany the word “Jew” Or “Jewish” became a dirty word. The Jewish people did not respond by calling themselves something else.

Had some University in Germany in 1933 stated “we will not call them Jews anymore as that will stigmatize them” I would have disagreed with them as well as it only meant they surrendered to that far right. They in essence would be agreeing that being “Jewish” is somehow bad.

I read your reasons and responded to them detailing while I felt differently on the matter then you did. That is not being “closed minded”. It seems from your POV to be open minded I would have had to agree with you. That is not being “open minded”.

this represents the basic cognitive dissonance of our civilization