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'This Is Not A Game,' Declares Greek Minister as Talks Collapse in Brussels


#1

'This Is Not A Game,' Declares Greek Minister as Talks Collapse in Brussels

Jon Queally, staff writer

Without any apparent progress, talks in Brussels between the Syriza-led government of Greece and finance ministers of the Eurogroup collapsed on Monday just hours after negotiations began.

An official with the Greek delegation first told Reuters that talks were called off after finance minister Yanis Varoufakis rejected a proposal put forth by the Eurogroup ministers which essentially called for an extension of the current bailot scheme with no alterations to the terms.


#2

He should be focusing on getting the EU to back off from insisting on austerity and instead give the Greeks freedom to try other means to stimulate the economy. He's posturing too much.


#3

Could we just skip to the end where Greece exits the Eurozone?


#4

it is working as planned for some but certainly not for the majority.


#6

The rich have amassed obscene amounts of cash and need to invest it, that's why they created the EU, austerity measures and the Euro all tools to loot and plunder the unwary people of Europa. The people of Europe had it good but have been exploited by hook and by the crooked banksters from USA, Britain and Israel.


#7

Iceland wants to join the EU and applied back in 2009 and this is still ongoing, pending a referedum in which it will be put to the Icelandic people to decide.

You're very confused in your description of the EU and the situation in Europe. You're confusing the EU with the Eurozone, which is the currency Union. There are great advantages, for all countries including Greece, in being in the EU which is why it has continued to expand with many new countries seeking to join it. In Greece's case one of these advantages is that they get a lot more money out of it in subsidies etc than what they pay into it, and this is nothing to do with loans of any sort but just the general redistribution of the EU budget, which allows the richer countries to subsidise the poorer ones. Generally it is those on the right, the xenophobic, conservative element within each country, whether it be UKIP in the UK, AfD in Germany, Sverige Demokrat in Sweden, Marine Le Pen's Front National in France, etc, etc, that oppose EU integration and espouse the views that you do. All these anti-EU diatribes frequently encountered on CD sound to European ears pretty much the same as the speeches given by Conservative European equivalents of the US Tea-party throughout European media on a regular basis.


#9

Please! why does everyone refuse to see the wood in the trees?
There is one, and only one, cause of all our economic woes. During the early 1900's our stupid/corrupt politicians signed away our Sovereign "rights" , that allowed us to print and issue our own interest free, debt free money; and since then we have all become "debt slaves". Our rights to print and issue our own money out of thin air were ceded to private banking Corporations, thus now, we borrow all our money from them, and they simply print it out of thin air, and charge us interest for the privilege. Given the nature of our economic cycles, the booms and busts, it is virtually impossible for us ever to repay all such debts, especially since, when they print our borrowings, they do not also print the money to cover the interest repayments. This particular economic consequence was recorded centuries ago in the well known fable about the boy who possessed a goose that laid "golden" eggs; he sold the goose for a paltry sum and forever thereafter he was destitute.

The remedy for our problems is simple; we abrogate any agreement previously made, reclaim our Sovereign "rights" to print and issue our own debt free interest free money.

This will enable us to stop income-taxing of individuals; we may pay everyone that needs it a social wage, based on a break even computation, this will eliminate poverty and deprivation; those in receipt of the Social wage will be encouraged into employment, without loss of this Social wage, and to work for any employer for additional income, mutually agreed between them. this gives control of work and income to the "workman". Employers will gain a workforce of people willing to accept much lower wages than previously paid, thus making the employer production cost significantly lower; plus, the employer no longer collects taxes for the Government. The employer Corporation/business will pay tax annually as usual. The collection of V.A.T. or G.S.T., consumer taxes will cease.

All Government expenditures will be provided by the planned issue of our own debt free interest free money using legislation approved by Parliament. Health, Education, University courses, Infrastructure of all kinds, etc. etc.

Provided that all of these expenditures are actually "spent" into circulation they will not create inflation; inflation will occur, for instance, when too much money chases too few "goods". The Government must own and run it's own Bank, just like the original Commonwealth Bank. No Private Bank or Corporation will be permitted to create money, under any guise; our financial system will revert to one of "sound " money. Sound money is that which turns around sound borrowing and lending, controlled by being liquid cash, backed by the ownership of assets, and strict criteria keeping them in balance; borrowing and lending outside of these criteria, characterised as "high risk", will be permitted between parties willing to accept such risk, and then, only when it involves their own wholly owned assets.

Interest rates in the private sector will be set by the private sector. The floating exchange rate will be converted into "fixed" rates decided by Government, and as decided between Sovereign Nations and embodied in trade agreements. Our currency will not be traded on "Exchanges", our Nation will be immunised against the manipulated predations of the "Market".

The foregoing explains the broad brush strokes involved, but in summary we would have a Nation with little or no foreign debt, a Nation whose domestic economy sits on a solid unshakeable base, a Nation better able to compete in the wider World, a Nation without poverty whose peoples are empowered to think and work for themselves, a Nation rescued from the avarice of the "Money Lenders", and above all, a Government able to be free and Independent, instead of being owned by Corporate money and influence. This is named "The Universal Economy" because it will operate anywhere.

For those who doubt the efficacy of this proposal, I suggest they study the United States example. The clever banking Corporations engineered the U.S. dollar to be the Worlds reserve currency. Ever since the U.S. has been printing money out of thin air, the only Nation to do so, now they have military bases in more than one hundred and seven Nations, they have engineered regime change and wars in countless Nations, and recently have printed trillions of dollars, called quantitative easing, and poured it into foreign banks and financial Institutions trying to prevent the next meltdown; but it is not working because their printed money was not spent into circulation, instead it inflated the prices of shares and real estate, the bust cometh.


#11

'Without any apparent progress, talks in Brussels between the Syriza-led government of Greece and finance ministers of the Eurogroup collapsed on Monday just hours after negotiations began.'

That long...? And that's not even an ironic question. What's to discuss, if the ogrish creditors are intransigent?


#12

It's you who needs to keep up with the news: your so clueless about these matters you are not even able to distinguish between the EU and the Eurozone. I made that point initially but it seems to have gone way over your head, as seen in your response which adresses problems of the Eurozone and not the EU. Greece wants to remain in the EU. it's the Eurozone they have a problem with. The only people in Greece who don't are the xenophobic right, as in other EU countries. These have grown in support lately generating anti-EU sentiment mainly due to a massive influx of immigrants from former Eastern-Bloc countries who have recently joined the EU (Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Baltic States, etc) into the old EU in the West, for EU membership allows free movement and right of residency (including claiming social security benefits) for all citizens across its borders. This is creating unprecedented social tensions hence the rise of such as UKIP in the UK.

There is still moves in iceland to join the EU coming mainly from the left wing Social democratic parties. It's the right of centre, free market promoting progress party (the ones who caused the icelandic banking crisis, for some bizarre reason recently re-elected in Iceland.) who have curtailed accession proceedings but even then it is pending a referendum.

Why send me a link to some obviously biased, dumbed down, Europhobic tabloid, fox-news level American idiot source in a discussion about Europe as some sort of evidence of anything? My guess is you're also an American and as such poorly educated about these matters, looking from a distance with barely the historical, cultural, socio-geographic, psychological infrastructure to understand what your are pontificating about. If not, you give a good imitation of it.


#14

"Austerity" has never been intended by the billionaire bankers to "stimulate the economy". This propaganda gets repeated ad nauseum even by so called "progressive" economists and journalists. Austerity from the outset has been essentially a code word for the banker billionaires' phase two after having participated in the blowing up of the bubble i.e., the real estate banking fraud of CDSs, CDOs, and other toxic derivative scams dreamed up by AIG et al, that led to a notional value of 1.4 quadrillion on their criminalized collective spreadsheets.

Rather than de-notionalize this monstrosity these TBTJail banksters embarked upon the ongoing grandest heist in the history of this world by rendering their collective fraud a sledgehammer to raid every public trust in the EU and eventually here in the US. This massive redistribution of income through essentially bribery is absolutely intended to break up those socialist democratic public bonds in Europe so the neoliberals can realize their dream of privatization of every publicly owned institution e.g., universal health care, water and electricity utilities, et al.

That is the game being played here.


#15

The construct of the ECB and its implementation of the Euro monetary system was absolutely designed as a means for coherent strategy among the billionaire bankster class of the FED, Bank of England, and the ECB to ultimately drive neoliberal policies that could break up the long held public trusts of European countries.

Your disingenuous swipe at CD commenters who understand this, insinuating that holding such a grasp of reality is tantamount to having alliance with that litany of right wing groups is absurd.


#16

Thank you Thomas. I'm not an economist, but this is how I read it too...


#17

I stick by my estimation of you as clueless about this matter and your new post adds more evidence for it. Again, your entire 'argument' as you describe it is addressing the problems generated by the Eurozone rather than the EU and you seem unable to distinguish between the two.

"You keep bringing up the EU and eurozone in some sort of fake argument. I never even brought up the Eurozone so what are you talking about?" It's not a 'fake argument' it's the crux of my whole point. You brought up the Eurozone in the sense that the things your railed against in your post (bankers, IMF, indebtedness of certain countries etc) are happening to countries in the Eurozone yet you keep mistakingly referring to it as the EU. These things are not effecting all the countries in the EU just those in the Eurozone. Italy, Greece, Spain, Ireland etc.

"All EU states monetary policies are driven by the European Central Bank" NO, they are not, only those countries that are in the Eurozone and share the Euro as a common currency. Many countries in the EU are not in the Eurozone and so still have their own currency and control their own economies or at least as much as anywhere else does in this present age of financial globalisation. The UK, Sweden, Denmark for example opted not to join the Eurozone and do not use the Euro.

Has the penny dropped yet?

This new link about Iceland just confirms exactly what I said to you in my previous post: That, the newly elected free market promoting Progress/Independent coalition (centre right) had curtailed the accession bid. Others such as the left wing Social democratic party in Iceland are still likely to pursue it should they be elected again. So iceland hasn't 'rejected the EU' just that particular coalition of parties. The only part I wasn't aware of is that they had also put the referendum on hold. You though, didn't even know they had applied to join until you went off googling after I pulled you on that.

When did I say I believe that " that international bankers care about people and will help relieve their poverty" exactly? You're certainly reading a lot into my comment about how you should distinguish between the Eurozone and the EU. Apparently, I love bankers now, do I? And me who has been an ardent socialist for all of his life, a trade union steward, an activist on demos against austerity and so on.

"I choose to read publications that don't support your world view so that makes me clueless?"

You don't know what my world view is so how do you know what I read? But if the previous link was an example of what you read, then I would say it is certainly likely to help you in that direction, yes.

Generally, I haven't met an American yet who isn't hostile to the EU. I wonder why?


#19

I declare you the winner of this debate. Kudos.


#20

God you're slow on the uptake. I haven't been trying to change the topic. The difference between the EU and the Eurozone has been my whole point since my very first post to you in which you initially criticised the EU for things happening in the Eurozone as though they were the same thing when they ARE NOT. How many times does this have to be spelled out to you? And, as I have already explained to you but you seem, as said, slow on the uptake, you DID bring it up in the sense that you made this mistake, using the term 'EU' when you should have used the term 'Eurozone.' Basically because you didn't know the difference because you didn't have a real clue what you were talking about. Till now. Am I right or am I wrong, be honest? At least with yourself. That was the reason for my first post and what I have tried to get across to you ever since, difficult though that is. Have you got it yet?

On the good side, at least you're getting some sort of education and becoming a bit more clued up about the EU and will know this difference now due to having to google things and find answers to my points. Well done, not bad for a typical arrogantly know-all yet usually ignorant about the rest of the world American. In future when you comment on these matters, you may at least not call a crisis in the Eurozone due to bankers etc, a crisis in the EU.

Incidentially, it is something to be a citizen of one part of the world and get lectures about what it is really like there from someone who lives across a vast ocean yet presumes he knows more about it than you do even though he lives in a cocooned media bubble supplied by an atrocious news service. and national-centric education system. However, we in the rest of the world, including the EU are used to this insufferable US arrogance by now. I mean, where do you get off telling us EU citizens what we should do and dissing our institutions? If you were more aware you would know most Greeks, including Syriza and Yanis Varoufakis want to remain in the EU, even if they leave the Eurozone. (In a crisis engineered for Greece by US bank Goldman Sachs who fiddled the books allowing Greece entry to the zone when it shouldn't have been allowed by normal criteria.) As said you, however, side with the right wing borderline fascists who want to break up the EU and go back to borders, petty nationalism and possiblity of eventual warfare just like it was for the centuries before the EU was formed. Why don't you just mind your own business or at least get a clue what you are talking about before jumping in with EU hostile comments.

Iceland hasn't rejected the EU, just the present rightish government. Wait till the social democrats get back in and see what happens then.

Your post you diligently sought out about the ECB just reveals more cluelessness on your behalf. This isn't referring to currency control but a code of conduct across the EU for how banks should behave in relation to the dodgy antics of the 2008 crash. Your bold typeface stopped short of included the clarifying clause "within the Single Supervisory Mechanism." Under that system, the ECB is supposed to monitor that and stop illegal and irresponsble behaviour by banks, something they don't seem very good at. It's the equivalent of a code of conduct. The ECB has NO POWER to tell the Bank of England or Sweden etc how to manage their own currency, what interest rates to set etc, which is why, if you take time to read the (non-US) news about it, you would know that these countries are not involved in the Eurozone crisis nor obliged by the IMF etc to establish austerity measures, sell off assets, nor are they in debt to them or seeking loans. These countries can devalue their currency if they want, a luxury not allowed to those countries who have given it up and joined the Eurozone which is the crux of their whole problem.

See, even when you try and find info to disprove me, you misunderstand it and show more evidence you have no real clue about the EU and its institutions nor what is going on here.

I don't like the ECB either, your comment is a straw man as I never defended it nor would I. I said the EU. Americans don't like the Union and your country even engineers financial crisis like the one in the Eurozone to try and destroy it. Or declares war on Iraq when they make moves to trade oil in the Euro and not the dollar. And I've been politically active and protesting, striking, (as said was union steward for 15 years) all my life so you're wrong about that too, yet it's characterstic of you by now to make judgements and comments of things about which you know nothing.

Have a nice day!


#21

Looks like you were wrong chicken, he appears to have vanished, unable to answer my points.