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Too Early, Says Sanders, But 2020 Run 'Not Off The Table'


As you state here Emphyrio, the Duopoly will continue to lie, cheat, and steal by never changing a thing in their form of mis-representation of the American People.

Bernie Sanders spoke a good line, enough so that even I was taken with his apparent authenticity. I continue to love things he says passionately. But, we can never forget that two weeks before the Democratic Convention he was saying "We're going to take this fight all the way to the convention".

Within days of saying that, Bernie had two meetings, one with Obama, one with Clinton. After those two meetings, Bernie was a broken man.

Why would anything ever be different as long as the Establishment Politicians have apparent control of him.

Jill was our best hope for salvation, this past election season. Only a few million of us saw that.
Most of us had already fallen behind Bernie and we're contributing greatly to his campaign. Once he was put under the control of the woman who would soon become a two time loser, Jill and Ajamu became the best chance at achieving true representative government. Warmongering America didn't see things that way. Not enough of us gave her our time or money. All our loss.

There's nothing much left to say about it.

If we fail to recognize honesty and integrity going forward, we are all fucked.


We cannot know or appreciate what pressures are brought to bear on politicians, especially those who buck the system and power,
but to loss respect and denigrate when there are few other options, at this moment, may not be the best course.
I voted Green for Jill and do so whenever I can - I will never again be taken-in by the lesser evil game or DINO collusion and deceptions. That said I continue to believe Sanders is a person of integrity, even if there was disappointment when he didn't "take it to the mat at the convention" - that he became a broken man was obvious to me, through possible threats and the betrayals of others, not his own - Bernie likely believed he could do better to live to fight another day as he continues to do to this day.

They say "don't judge others until you have walked in their moccasins" Some here say Sanders caved and endorsed HRC and can never be trusted again, but I remember he did so with contempt and obvious reluctance. Some who denigrate without building anything may be just trying to divide us - Keep the faith brother - peace!


You want perfection, move to Switzerland. You will lose us so many elections we will be in the ovens before you can say Ralph Nader.


There are those who imagine a better world and helping other people.

There are also those who seek only to take advantage of others through abusing their power and focusing only on their own greed.

Imagine that!

After Trump came Bernie!

Imagine what that would be like?


I was a Bernie supporter, until he capitulated to Hillary and the DNC. That was difficult to excuse; although, I ventured that he was threatened by Obama and Reid. And, if he becomes the DP nominee, I'll consider voting for him, dependent on his foreign policy stance and how well DJT manages China, Russia, Syria, Ukraine, NATO, and N. Korea. I abhor DJT's domestic endeavors; but, it's easier to fight and alter the outcome of those issues here at home than it is to alter the oligarchy's quest for world domination.


See, here's the thing - for them to claim support for something and not file a bill - ya gotta ask yourself why - because they know it is "useless"? So why the bill in the House - that is useless, too.... Let's face it, the Ds are stuck on the horns of a dilemma - Clinton was right, there will be no SP with either party, neither one wants it - but elections are coming up and it is pretty damn popular, - all the House is up for re-election, their derriere's are on the line - many Ds have "signed on" because in the House, that blankety blank Conyers keeps on re-introducing the bill and they can't very well say they are "for SP" but refuse to co-sponsor it - but if they ever actually got a majority, as they had in '09, what would they do - SP? Naw, they would "fix the ACA". ...

In the Senate - 23 of the 33 Sen up for re-election .in '18 are - Ds, including Warren, Gillibrand, and Sanders (a D by any other name is still a D) 2 of those being freshly minted "converts" to SP - they are "on board" rhetorically,- so why haven't they introduced/co-sponsored such a bill - because they have been told by the DP PTB that they depend on, not to, as of yet .... and why, because if they did a) they would have to run on it b) it would increase the public pressure on other Sen to do the same c) they might sound too convincing (smile), Remember, Sens, unlike Reps, run for an entire State and "need" lots more money.... this way they can "talk big" and do - nothing - do a Sanders "Yeah, i support SP, but not for now - first we gotta yadda, yadda ,yadda ..." But that yadda, yadda seems to be eternally renewable ... But i wouldn't be surprised, if shortly before the election, we will see some Sen SP bill - introduced at an agreed upon time when the funding PTB are quite content that it is a load of BS (smile)

Actually, if you have failed to notice - the overwhelming majority of "pounding", at least in the MSM AND on "prog sites" like this has been on - Trump. not that he, to a great extent, doesn't deserve it., while we continue to give a "pass" to, or make excuses for, the Ds, as we always do, who:"say the tight thing" - but do - squat.

Indeed, more of us need to "pound on people" especially those who say, but do not do .


What if he runs as a Democrat at the top of the ticket with Jill Stein?


Cheers, sherlock - but rest your mind, the DP won't have "undergone a drastic overhaul and been purged of its neolib crypto-fascist leadership in the interval between now and then" or at anytime in the foreseeable future ... (smile)


As you say, words are just words unless they are put into action.

It's been my experience in my years that most Democrat politicians say what you want to hear, and then deliver not to the people but to the Big Money Interests involved.

Reforming that is highly unlikely to impossible.

I believe the only solution is to make them pay for their deceit and mistrust. Never again support them.

Support those who have not given reason to lose trust in.

Enabling legal corruption in the Duopoly is akin to pulling the trigger. I personally will never again justify having blood on my hands from voting for those with evil intent and little to no morals or ethics.


You're a dreamer Natureboy. You really think Jill Stein would sink that low, or that the Democrat Establishment would ever allow either on that ticket?

Not a snowballs chance in Hell.


Look, you are right about all the things that are wrong with our current system. There is no question that the Ds and Rs at the national level are rotten to the core. Where we differ is over how to change the entire system.

I am not saying that a third party is not preferable to what we have. I am simply saying that if you expect to create a winning third party, don't plan on it happening in your lifetime. Think about the task of starting virtually from scratch--the infrastructure it would take just to create a NATIONAL presence, the amount of coordination it takes to pull a 50-state strategy together, what it would take to gain media attention, and where would the money come from?

Bernie knew that, and while he was hesitant to jump into a party that was known to be corrupt, what choice did he have of getting his message across? As it turned out, the "system" beat him in the primary. But he accomplished what he set out to do, which was to grab the microphone and tell OUR side of the story. And the MSM started to respond after ignoring him for months. And not only does he still have that mic, he is the most popular politician in the country.

You can call it being co-opted or selling out or whatever you want, but look back on our recent 50+ year political history and find a Progressive candidate that has managed to accomplish what Bernie has. Why? Because Bernie is not only a Progressive Socialist, he is a pragmatist. Tell me what good it would have done if Bernie had run as a Green candidate, or any other third party. We would not even know his name, let alone his progressive platform. Why? Because the MSM would have given him the same treatment they gave Jill Stein.

I have no problem with you working hard for a third party presence. I applaud your idealism, which is what will get us the change we need--in the long run. But until the nitty-gritty of creating something that stands a chance of winning against the odds is in place, we have to be thinking of how to make progress NOW. Bernie had that figured out and in spite of all the sniping from both the Right and the Left (and the DNC), he still has the microphone and he has a national following that can lead to real change if we just include his strategy as part of this "long-game" vision of a multi-party system. Don't forget, he is the longest serving Independent in our recent history. Give him credit where it is due. I don't believe you can accomplish the change you want without learning the lesson that Bernie's candidacy has provided.


What Sanders' supporters think he "has to do" and what he thinks he has to do are two entirely different things - what his supporters, (or many of them, some think that Sanders is fine just the way he is) think he "has to do" is live up to his rhetoric which he keeps failing to do - Sanders, OTOH, feels he has to do whatever he can to keep his supporters on board with the DP without stepping on the toes of the folks who actually run, aka the financial interests, the party - the fact that he has succeeded so well thus far is the reason he was made "Head of Outreach" for the party ,

All that stuff you list Trump as doing is no different in kind, only in blatancy, from what the DP (and the Rs) has been doing for at least the last 25 years - but that "medicine" has failed to cure what ails us - a fawning insistence on electing Ds as the LOTE ....


The clairvoyance the Bernie Basher's have is astonishing. To be so attuned and in touch with Sanders thinking, his actions, and his intentions - his innermost thoughts and motives, is really something astonishing to behold.............there is a future for such insight and wisdom....maybe as a carnival clown or palm reader...............


The Greens are not "moribund" in between - they are doing a bunch of things, but the MSM doesn't cover them, nor do "prog" sites like this, for that matter - so if anyone really wants to know what they are doing - sign up for e-mail lists of announcements/coverage ..

And what makes you think a "new party" wouldn't wind up with the same fate - isn't that the reason that Sanders was lauded for NOT running as an indy?

" .. look for a way to make the changes they deem critical and wise within our corrupted by money system "

So are you referring to those who insist on sticking with the corrupted by money political parties or on all those who insist on trying to use the electoral system to make change - that second set overlaps, but is not co-terminal with the first - and that is a crux of many or our discussions ...

"One politician speaks of that change and is wise enough to realize to win one must attract voters. "

Hmm, one could argue that that describes both Sanders - and Trump - say what you need to say to attract voters ...

"One politician energizes and builds the coalition needed to win and effect change ... "

Uh- huh - again that could be said to describe both Sanders - and Trump .

"One politician has the energy and integrity to keep on fighting even in the 'off season' "

Hmm, now who would that be - the only one i can think of is Stein - the others, the ones who would actually have the power to do anything, keep coming up with all sorts of reasons to do nothing in that "off season"..

" ...these "usual suspects" never write or say why, or what, or who, or educate/energize others ..."

What a crock - can't help it if when we try to do those things you close your eyes, stick you fingers in your ears and dance around yelling nyah, nyah, nyah ....

We keep trying to tell you "how change may be effected within our corrupt politics" but you refuse to listen ....THAT is what is "narrow-minded"

"One cannot walk or be led into the forest for decades and walk out in a month."

Especially when there are those who insist on trying to convince others to keep walking around in circles in that forest


Diversionary divisive mumbo jumbo.

Mumbo Jumbo: noun, informal
language or ritual causing or intended to cause confusion or bewilderment.
"a maze of legal mumbo jumbo"
synonyms: nonsense, gibberish, claptrap, rubbish, balderdash, blather, hocus-pocus;


Good summary ! - the only point i would quibble with was that it was only after Sanders "came under the control, etc" that the Stein/Baraka ticket became our best hope - it was so from the beginning .......


http://www.greenpartywatch.org/ - overview of the "bunch of things" the GP is doing on their official website.

Moribund: adjective - "lacking vitality or vigor"

I really do wish there were more activity and wider support......................

update - Just got email from Jill Stein re "Green Party’s 2017 National Meeting in Newark, New Jersey, where I’ll be making (Jill) an important announcement at a live press conference on Thursday, July 13 at 4pm Eastern time" - excellent news!


Aquifer did a great job responding. Let me also give my two cents.

Listen, Warren is a phony. She says she supports SP but she doesn't do anything about it. Now you say that there's no point in introducing a bill because it won't get passed because the GOP controls the Senate. That's not the main reason to introduce it. The main reason is to make it clear to people who in the Democratic Party in the Senate supports it by co-sponsoring it and who doesn't. It's drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Come on our side."

But Warren is a phony. By saying she's for it but not going the next step, she is trying to court both sides.

I want people to know that if the Dems (as they currently exist) get control of the government that Warren (whether she is a powerful senator or the next President) will never do this. Don't get taken in. It's a scam.



The Duran is flagged as a possible purveyor of fake news stories. And, also as a right wing affiliated news sight-Media Bias-Wikipedia. I watch RT, have followed Democracy Now! for many years, etc. I have a lot of discussions with Republicans and Clintonistas, et al. People are all over the map right now. And, most are quite disgusted, too. No surprise, there. It's still " too much month at the end of the money ", for 70-75% of America.
As to Hedges and Hartman: Hartman supports Sen. Sanders and his iniatives as far as my ears tell me. I listened to his Portland show for years. Followed him longer than that. His views are well within the understood parameters of the left wing
(progressive ) of the Democratic Party. He is certainly a good businessman, a good family man,
an entertaining fellow with a great business plan and prolific writer, as well.
Hedges is great, probably heroic, but doesn't necessarily share my left libertarian views on certain matters. ( That's what makes a horse race ). Someone who goes off on tangents, like we all do. His life's body of work, especially with those imprisoned, is pretty amazing, without a doubt.
Does he often quote articles from The Duran?

But, critiques which offer Green Party bromides, and not much else, seem pretty counter-productive and counter-intuitive. The Green's theme song could be Somewhere Over The Rainbow or The Big Rock Candy Mountain. Sung by Burl Ives, of course.


I stand corrected. Thanks.