I assume you disapprove of those things.
They call it McCarthyiism because, you know, Trump is just like Pete Seeger.
The problem, Lrx, is that while Trump and Putin have no credibility, neither do the US intelligence agencies. This is also being sold to a group, the left, that has often been a target of their lies and propaganda and there has not been evidence presented on any of this. In fact, given how the DNC has acted since its claims of being hacked, any logical person that is also impartial (not you) would be a little suspicious. Besides, can anyone claim that Russia impacted the last election and our politics more than Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, or interests like Wall Street and shadow groups controlled by the big money interests in both parties? Give me a break.
It is obvious that Trump has ties to Russian interests, as he has ties to Saudi interests, and countless other interests. It is obvious that he is corrupt and those around him do have strong connections to Russia, among others. Beyond that, nothing is obvious. Trump is an incompetent buffoon, is corrupt (which could bring him down), is ignorant, but the Democrats don’t want to focus their attacks on him with policy because their large donors don’t want them to push for policies that are popular, because those policies are almost always progressive. So, instead, the entire strategy is Russia, Russia, Russia and Trump is bad. Anyone that doesn’t see this, at least in part, as a propaganda campaign is intentionally naive.
Again though, to claim that Russia had more of an impact in our last election or the range of policies we could choose from than Wall Street, other corporate interests, the countless shadow groups on both sides (your little run down could have just as easily have described Correct the Record), or counties such as Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia (among others) is laughable. You assign a power to Putin and Russia that doesn’t exist, and if it did anyway, what would it say about how weak our democracy is and how weak Clinton was as a candidate any damn way?
23 Senators voted against the Iraq War resolution. 133 House members voted no.Her vote in favor led to Clinton’s future political defeats. Obama, though not in the Senate at the time, spoke against the war vote. My own congressperson was the sole vote against the original AUMF. What purpose does it serve to brand all with the same iron?
People like yourself are aligned with people like Graham and McCain. You should be proud. They’re always itching for more war, more proxy wars, and McCain was spotted a few years ago with actual Ukrainian fascists. Shocking that they’d jump onto this campaign, especially with how much they both don’t like Trump themselves. You don’t have to be a partisan Democrat to want to work to undermine Trump. Now, would they support doing a similar investigation into Israel’s interference in our elections? The way that Israel bribes politicians, takes out ads and does propaganda against perceived enemies? Did their prime minister, the very person that pushed for the Iraq war and the person that wants war with Iran, not speak to our congress while our president was pushing for a peace deal with Iran? So, would they support an investigation like this regarding Israel, or Saudi Arabia, or Turkey, Mexico, China, or Wall Street and other corporate interests? Why, especially given how much the intelligence agencies lie, would a logical person overlook this? Especially when there is still is very little evidence? Also, given how unpopular Trump is, and given that most of his policies are deeply unpopular, why is it that the Democrats focus on this far more than policy? Could be an actual strategy, and the DNC didn’t announce that strategy shortly after the election when they formed their “war room”, right?
Can you answer me one question? The DNC will not let intelligence look at their server. Given that the claim is that Russia interfered in our election, and given that some are arguing that this amounts to something like a coup, can you explain why? Explain why the DNC will not let the FBI and the NSA look into their server, and for that matter, why have those agencies not pushed the matter?
“From my experience this comment section is one of the few places where people are still holding on the view that there is no evidence of Russian interference.”
Nonsense. Places like this are where we realize that other countries, corporate interests, and shadow groups aligned with both parties impact our election far more than Russia, and it is absurd to claim otherwise. People here realize that there are no investigations into the interference by other groups, individuals and countries because the establishment is fine with that interference, and economically relies on it. People here are also aware of the history of intelligence agencies using these types of campaigns against the left, governments of the left elsewhere and are justifiably suspicious of the lack of evidence. Noam Chomsky, who I respect far more than the head of some intelligence agency in the US or some rotten politician in the US, says as much. He also has many books, like Manufacturing Consent, that go into how propaganda works. Is he too a stooge? As far as Facebook, Twitter, etc., do you think they don’t realize other countries and interests doing the same? Do we have to link the countless times that the US has not only overthrown democracies elsewhere, but the times in which we wiretapped and spied on our own allies, infiltrated US aligned governments for particular reasons, have the CIA and NED not paid off politicians and undermined democracies in other countries?
I would like to confront Trump on policy, his incompetence, his ignorance and I don’t have to align myself with creeps like Graham in some propaganda campaign in other to undermine him. That’s the level of patheticness I would expect form most running the national DNC and war mongers like McCain and his buddy Graham.
Whew, but yeah.
What important here, that Putin meddled in the election (which America routinely does with other country’s elections) or having better relations with a nuclear superpower?
Chomsky often warns us about accidental nuclear war.
The pot calling the kettle black in this case is only useful for political purposes. If we want fair elections, start with our own.
Chomsky gives some perspective on this type of stuff:
You’re conflating two separate issues,jo6. I won’t deny your opinion on what the US does world-wise is correct as we have become propagators of war to benefit our military-industrial complex. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what’s going on as far as Russian meddling in our elections and if you can’t see the difference then you are obviously a trumpster since nobody but they can possibly agree with your point. What took place during the 2016 election cycle is nothing short of treason and if you’re tired of hearing about it, it’s because you’re a trump supporter, plain and simple.
Does Russia interfere with our elections more than Israel? Saudi Arabia? If you argue that it does, please provide an argument and some facts to back that argument up.
Does Russia interfere in our elections more than Wall Street or corporate interests do?
Did Russia have more of an impact in our election as far as propaganda than the corporate media, corporate propaganda campaigns or even groups like Correct the Record?
If what we know now, what has actually been proven, how is the conclusion something other than our democracy is so incredibly weak and the candidate Trump went against so bad that the propaganda mattered at all? Even if your argument was true, why does that not lead you back to questioning why things that most countries do in the workings of other democracies had such a huge impact in our democracy and the last election? It isn’t like it took much for people to not like Clinton or Trump. God forbid people learn a lesson from that.
When I wrote “I will very much miss the consistently intelligent and informed conversation in the Comments Section” I obviously wasn’t referring to you, so I’m not sure why you engaged. (Just looking to promote Fox News? I mean, with your tribalism, xenophobia, and intolerance of dissent, you sound exactly like Bill O’Reilly.)
I’ve been on this site for about 15 years (formerly camelrocker) and admin can look back and see that i am a thoughtful leftist. FB can look back at my history and see i have shared CD articles for a decade. I am disgusted that they have become an mouthpiece for the democratic party and the faux “resistance.” It breaks my heart. Y’all don’t hold anybody accountable for past actions, bush or clintons or obama or citibank et al or the podesta group or the DNC. or the Saudis or Israel. Just RUSSIA and Trump, who have yet to commit anywhere near the crimes of the forementioned parties.
My previous reply was biting, but this one is nothing but sincere: Do you know how ignorant you sound? I’ve spent the last three decades throwing everything I have against the corporatist right’s propaganda machine – and denouncing Fox’s parade of charlatans posing as journalists.
YOU are the one who is acting like a Rush Limbaugh “Dittohead,” refusing to engage on facts (because you have none on your side), and simply trying to smear anyone who questions the propaganda.
IOW, you’re the one siding with authoritarian warmongers, while I’m still working to resist the far-right and the deep state.
Here’s what a Fox News “fan” I am:
I will happily accept your apology, the moment you come down off your screamingly ignorant high horse.
From what’ve learned so far, would prefer Lieu over DeLeon. Either one will be better than Feinstein.
Me neither! They are hilarious, and all over the board, i can’t quite make out any strategy… At first I thought it was an onion piece, then i saw it was politico, then I actually thought real quick about the date to make sure it wasn’t April 1st.
None of the elected leadership from the Democratic Party and none of the professional leadership stood up and corrected the record.
I stand corrected - All-1. Too bad she wasn’t in the leadership of the Democratic Party.
There are many more Republicans than McCain and Graham who want to know more about Russian interference with the election and with our democracy in general. Neither of those two Republicans are leading the investigations in the Senate. To think this has anything to do with wars makes no sense. It has to do with holding elections in the US and maintaining a democracy. The DNC server is only a small part of this. There is fake news, fake social media sites, political ads secretly paid for by Russians, and even street protests secretly paid for by Russians. You keep yammering on about the DNC server when the hacking now seems like just the tip of the iceberg. Russia appears to have a very comprehensive cyber strategy to undermine democracy in the US and in Europe. You should pay attention to the investigations in the Senate and House to learn more about this stuff.
She immediately required our support because both Republicans and the leading Green Party person in the state attacked her patriotism.