Yes. Of course we have Barbara Lee here, but she is aiming for leadership in the House next year.
OK, you’re not a Fox fan. Just something of a jerk.
Yet? Alright, yet.
how many lies has the holy-now-for-“progressives” CIA told? at least T admitted the usa is no saint nation. When did obama ever do that?
No, no, no. Trump is much much better.
Yammers as if the case is proven. I’ll post this just so it’s clear the “leak” stuff is far from proven:
You Sir, are full of shit.
The most interesting thing here is that Russia denies that the conversation ever happened. If it had, Putin would, logically, have endorsed what Trump said with a “Yup. I never did.” Instead, he’s calling Trump a liar. For some reason that is more disturbing than the rest of the story because it doesn’t make sense, fundamentally.
I think Trump hears only himself.
Trump’s an easy mark. Putin, who has spent his life in and on top of an extensive internal and external intelligence and repression apparatus, toys with him knowing he is a deeply compromised individual. I think the only people fooled by this are die-hard Trump fans on the Putin-just-wants-peace Left and the Trump’s-tough right.
I take it you didn’t enjoy my political cartoons.
“something of a jerk”
You’re welcome to your opinion, however baseless. Nice blog. Best of luck to you.
You aren’t this naïve and I don’t know who here will take that comment seriously. Are you aware of the hawks, the policies they support, their record?
“It has to do with holding elections in the US and maintaining a democracy.”
You can’t argue that Russia had more of an impact over our democratic process than many other countries, of a few of which I named. It’d be an absurd thing to say, and yet, to take your argument seriously, I’d have to pretend something like that. Did Russia have more of a corrupting influence than Wall Street and other corporate interests? I could provide countless examples, but one I like is the TPP negotiations. Were there any labor or environmental groups at the center of those negotiations? Did our own representatives have as much access to that agreement than the hundreds of corporate advisors and lawyers that wrote and negotiated that deal? And you want to talk about preserving our democracy with this stuff.
“You keep yammering on about the DNC server when the hacking now seems like just the tip of the iceberg”
Yeah, I keep yammering on about something that is central to the DNC’s claims and the propaganda they have been forwarding for months now. They won’t let our own intelligence agencies analyze their server, while they at the same time say that our democracy has been undermined by a country that hacked their server. Our own intelligence agencies have not really pressed the matter and no evidence has been presented to prove the DNC’s claims. You have no real response, so you dismiss me and say I am “yammering”.
“You should pay attention to the investigations in the Senate and House to learn more about this stuff”
And you should ask why there are not similar investigations into the corruption that Wall Street takes part in, or Israel, or Saudi Arabia, or oil companies, and lots of other corporate interests. Why are others not going to jail in a system overcome by corruption? Again, I don’t expect you to have a response. I expect you to call me names for not buying into third rate propaganda. I also think there are far better ways of taking on Trump, but those things wouldn’t benefit the politicians like Cuomo or Schumer, or their top donors.
this, to me, is the proper default position of the Left. These are all elites, in one fashion or another. And none of them are our friends.
There is no need to bring Wall Street into this. Can’t you focus on anything but Wall Street? The problem is that with internet, social media, etc, it has not become possible for a foreign government, in this case Russia, to interfere with US election and other types of political activity in a way that was never possible before. You could say Russia is waging a cyberwar on the US and Europe although I would prefer not to use that term since it could lead to retaliation and escalation. Even if Russia did not hack the DNC servers there is plenty of other ways in which Russia has tried to interfere with the election. Intrusions into state computers, fake social media accounts, secret political ads, organizing and funding political protests, and fake news. The claim of Russia hacking is from the US intelligence agencies . When these agencies make such a claim it has to be taken seriously. I am against corruption also, A law was passed to deal with Wall Street corruption after the housing bubble collapse. Both Sanders and Clinton promised to do more about that but neither of them are president and the Republicans control both houses of Congress. I think that largely explains why things are not moving on that front. But there is bipartisan agreement to investigate how Russia interfered with the election so things are moving on that. I think people from Wall Street should have been tried and if convicted jailed over the housing bubble scandal and find it frustrating that more has not been done. I think some people from the mortgage industry did go to jail although I am not certain about that. There was certainly a lot of wrongdoing and I don’t think the situation has really been corrected.
I mentioned Wall Street once, and mentioned a lot of other things too. So yeah, I can talk about things other than Wall Street. The point, in case you missed it, is that there are lots of powerful interests that have corrupted our democracy, far more than Russia, and you happen to provide cover for a number of them here all the time. Then you turn around and pretend to want to defend our democracy. It’s absurd. It’d be one thing if you called out corruption within the Democratic Party or the DNC, but you don’t, just the opposite. You provide cover for it, and lots of corrupt politicians. You were just touting Cuomo as a candidate for president, and he shut down his own panel on corruption when it started to take its job seriously. How can you say what you always say here then turn around and pretend that you care about our democracy and the integrity of our democracy? You do seem to live in a bubble.
“Even if Russia did not hack the DNC servers there is plenty of other ways in which Russia has tried to interfere with the election.”
My freaking god. I will ask this one last time; are there not other countries that do far more than create freaking internet memes, and online propaganda campaigns in this country? Answer the question. Given what has been proven to this point, are there no other countries that do far more than what you can prove Russia has done to this point? Have we not done far, far more to other countries, including Russia (see the 1996 election there). Of course, goes without saying. You explain to me how it is okay that Israel does far more to interfere in our domestic politics than Russia. You explain why the same is true with Saudi Arabia, and many other countries, but nothing at all is done about it. You can’t. It is also obvious why most in both parties have no interest in a probe like this extending to other countries or corruption in general. There’d be about five politicians left standing.
“The claim of Russia hacking is from the US intelligence agencies . When these agencies make such a claim it has to be taken seriously.”
Says you. See, Trump has no credibility because he lies all the damn time. He doesn’t tell the truth, and as a result, we don’t give him the benefit of the doubt when he says to trust him. Same goes with the intelligence agencies in this country. They lie all the time, they manipulate citizens in countries around the world, ours as well, they overthrow democracies, and there is a long history of undermining groups that those in power don’tl like domestically. Remember when the head of the NSA denied it was doing sweeping survelance under oath, then had to scramble when leaks came out showing otherwise? Or COINTELPRO, the Red Scare, etc. The domestic propaganda campaign to support the coup in Guatemala in 1954 was a famous case. The lies the media told that helped us get into Vietnam, what came out of the Church Committee (where we found out the massive number of journalists that were paid by the CIA to spread propaganda). Hell, even what is coming out of the recently declassified JFK files. Look at them. One shows that the CIA was thinking about bombing a part of Miami and then blaming it on Castro as a means to get support for a coup there, and I could go on forever. I seek evidence, and you just want everyone to accept this without thinking critically about any of it and you want everyone to ignore the actual history of those intelligence agencies. Why would any logical person give them the benefit of the doubt?
“I think people from Wall Street should have been tried and if convicted jailed over the housing bubble scandal and find it frustrating that more has not been done”
Greatest crime wave in modern history. Brought the entire economy down, totally looted local governments, the elderly, the collective savings of the African American community almost entirely wiped out, and your response is, “I think we got a banker or two, I wish we did something. Gosh golly.”
I didn’t say it was proven at all. I am saying that this story is as far from iron clad as a propaganda campaign could be. There isn’t much evidence at all at this point to prove the DNC hack and the DNC’s actions don’t match its rhetoric. If Russia did hack them, and if this did majorly impact the election, why in the world would the DNC not let the NSA and the FBI inspect its server? Why would those organizations not push the matter? You explain it, give me the logic. You wouldn’t buy this narrative if the RNC was doing this under similar circumstances. You and Lrx would be singing a different tune if that were the case. I, on the other hand, would be consistent and would call them out too. We don’t have to believe clunky propaganda without thinking critically in order to fight back against Trump.
Yes, it does make one chuckle. The idea that Russia directly interfered with the US election is stunningly thin and not particularly credible. Remember all that facebook advertsing by Russians, 100 K over 4 months; that was the total of which only 40% dealt with some political issue (equally split between Republicans and Democrats). Really, that threw the election? HRC’s billions, a pliable press and the entire establishment were no match? One can only laugh at this farce.
Of course, this is a different question from Trump’s coziness with the Russians who has money laundered hundreds of millions through his corrupt real estate deals. At one time, the Russians were rumored to own a third of Trump tower in New York. And of course the other bands of patriots at Trump’s side are more than willing to take lucrative lobbying contracts from Russia to enrich themselves as did the Clinton’s via the Russian uranium deal. As George Carlin said, its all one dig cozy club and you ain’t invited. The only reason we are talking about this is because one member of the club decided to have a tizzy.
Trump is a fool who has a crush on Putin – they probably committed obscenities together.