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Want to Attract Women? Try Not Hating Us.


#1

Want to Attract Women? Try Not Hating Us.

Jill Richardson

The recent attack in Toronto by a man who identifies as an “incel” has called attention to the disturbing and flourishing online incel community. “Incel” stands for “involuntarily celibate.”

These are straight men who, frustrated by their lack of romantic success, channel their feelings into hatred of women. Some even resort to violence. In Toronto, that meant striking dozens of people with a van, killing 10.

Others post online about how much they enjoy simply following women around in a threatening way, getting some kicks by scaring them.


#2

Great article. Thank you for saying it. There is a trend to believe that women do everything for men. You expressed it well. We do what we want to do because we have passions, motivations, goals. We are creative souls and they should stop considering women as second class people. We want o make our choices without apologizing for them.
Elena Ferrante said it too: “A woman can’t be too caring, too kind, too intelligent, too independent, too beautiful… A man can be anything and he will be respected and admired for it, but a woman will awaken other women’s enmity and will ignite anger in men.”


#3

For those who remember, John Lennon set a perfect example of this for us 40 years ago: Just one of many ways of being ahead of his time.


#4

I’m not sure what “incel” means, but as someone who has spent most if his life without intimacy due to a behavioral condition that is not my fault, my feeling is that this article is way off base - it’s stereotypes heaped on straw-men accusations.


#5

“A man can be anything and he will be respected and admired for it…”

This quote is overstating the case. I’m well aware of the societal disadvantages of being a short, skinny, non-alpha male who has been asked many times in my life by women if I’m gay, for instance.

The so-called “incel” movement is disturbing and I have never held, and I mean NEVER held a grudge against a woman for rejecting me on any level. I support the #metoo movement, equal pay, and every feminist argument put forth by this author and others.

I abhor misogynist jerks, and “men’s rights” groups.

What I’m resisting here, is a bizarre notion that no men are marginalized by societal standards held by both men and women, as to the worth of being “a real man”, and the rest.

It exists.


#6

I don’t know if I’d go that far, but I’ve become wary of articles (actually, more of a blog post) like this one that generalize–“men do this,” “women believe that,” and so on. Then, in the comments section, there is a tendency toward universalizing one’s personal experience. I’m not saying you’re doing this.


#7

I think she was taking pains to specify she was talking about the Incels and that other men might believe those things. It wasn’t as general as you took it is what I’m saying.

I appreciated the article because I’ve seen this type before. There was some college student in California that killed a guy as he was on his way to kill as many women as he could since he blamed them for him being a virgin. Innocent men often die in these rampages to kill women. I believe I’ve read that a full 50% of their victims end up being male simply because males try to stop them. It’s worth noticing the problem with haters endangers both genders is what I 'm saying.


#8

I seems to me that what is going on here is exactly like the attacks on Muslims for what a tiny minority of lunatics who happen to be Muslim are doing. This “incel” movement represents some tiny, group of disturbed individuals. I would not make it to be any thing bigger than that.


#9

Psychedelic_Chicken: let me explain something. The root of these problems have to do to the attachment to stereotypes and prejudices. Stereotypes lead to prejudices. I can write lots of life anecdotes related to this. It is appalling and very unfair to be judged based on ingrained stereotypes.
It is all part of the same problem.


#10

Agree that Jill Richardson is focusing on incels, but given the brevity of her article, she is still speaking broadly.

I would hazard a guess that many of these guys have been sold an unattainable model of masculinity. Sociologists talk about masculinities, plural. There’s more than one way to identify as a man. Just like there’s more than one way to identify as a woman.

Some men might want to be physically strong, fearless, or popular with women. Perhaps they see themselves as the providers and protectors for their families.

Men in professional careers might derive their masculinity through their role as experts. Maybe they couldn’t go out in the woods for a week and come back with an elk they shot themselves, but they can dominate a courtroom as a lawyer, or perform surgery, or even demonstrate more knowledge of Star Trek trivia than anyone else around.


#11

Don’t sell yourself short. I like short skinny men and I am not alone. The media does us no favors by showing that attractive men should look like Thor and attractive women look like models. Of course all men and women after a certain age are treated like yesterday’s dog food.


#12

There’s just one point in the article that I must disagree with. Please don’t tell people to “go for it” when what they want is babies.

The world’s human population is increasing, and this impedes the efforts to curb global heating, eliminate poverty, and eradicate diseases. The principal thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint is to forego a child – that has far more effect than foregoing airplane trips.

Also, without children, you could dedicate your life to doing something that you consider important, rather than to doing whatever pays a lot of money.


#13

Exactly. The problem with articles like this is to extrapolate how an incredibly tiny segment of a population set acts or believes into the entire population set. Frankly, I had never even heard of this “incel” group prior to reading this article. As I was reading, I was saying to myself, who even believes this stuff (that incels believe)? I’ve never met one person in my life that would align with them.

So do they exist? Sure, of course. There are misogynistic people all around the world. But can we take what incels believe and project it broadly into the male population? Absolutely not. And though some have claimed that this article isn’t doing that, read the title of the article again. It’s a pretty broad statement. “Incels” isn’t in the title. I had to read into the article a decent amount before I found out she was mostly referencing this tiny group of people.

And this is an important point, especially when people start making claims that we live in some paternalistic, rape-culture supporting world. It’s just false. And using incels to prove that claim actually serves to undermine it. Most people haven’t even heard of incels and would turn in disgust (like me) when they read about them.


#14

I’m sorry but this is a pretty disgraceful post. To impose on a population not to have children is pretty awful. Furthermore, the world population is growing, and guess what, world poverty and hunger has been decreasing at an even faster rate. Markets and trade have led to more efficient production of goods and services, discovery of more natural resources, and the lowering of market prices. You’re reading too much Paul Ehrlich BS.

Plus, implying that people should also be foregoing airplane rides in the name of protecting the environment is not only paternalistic but also incredibly condescending to the rest of the world. There are billions of people that are poorer than the poverty line in America who could only dream of using airline services once in their lives. And you’re telling the world that we should avoid the most efficient way to travel the world. Shame on you.


#15

How about getting to the root of this bitter and noxious plant? We have had 60 years of the so-called “Sexual Revolution” and its constant drumbeat of sexual pleasure for everyone, everywhere, at all times, and now you wonder why this has happened?

Those of us who stand for chastity, monogamy, and traditional sexual roles are routinely scorned, yet no one seems to want to connect the dots - immoral behavior has consequences. STDs, divorce, suicide, inability to develop true intimacy, unwanted pregnancies, abortion, child molestation, sex trafficking, etc. And now this…some deluded schmo, convinced by the pornographic world we live in, thinks that everyone but he is “getting some” and finally snaps.

But no…it’s not the fault of those who have created this immoral and degenerate society in which women are treated as packages of meat (Playboy, Hustler, that whole vile ilk) and cast aside. I’m sure that you guys here still think that Christianity is somehow to blame for this too.

People respond to stimuli. This is a known fact, and the basis of the multi-billion dollar advertising industry which exists to brainwash us into believing that we need More, MORE, MORE!!! This guy was brainwashed into believing that A.) women are there for men’s pleasure only B.) sex is being had by everyone, so he should be able to have it too. C.) life is all about sex and if you aren’t getting any, you are miserable. D.) you can’t control yourself and especially your sexual urges. They must be fulfilled.

One more time…for anyone who hasn’t seen this blog piece:


#16

Yunzer –

Automatically, of course, we would all sympathize with a “behavioral condition” that
may have prevented anyone from forming intimate relationships …

I’d draw your attention, however, to the likelihood that there are also a good number
of women who have a similar “behavioral condition” which prevents them from forming
intimate relationships.

But – is what you’re talking about and what these men are doing the same thing?

Some of these men are boasting of following or stalking women to frighten and scare
them.

One has actually resorted to violence which killed 10 people in some kind of revenge
for what he thought women were doing to him.

And the group these men are all involved with only seems to be encouraging this kind
of aggressive and violent behavior.


#17

Psych –

What I’m resisting here, is a bizarre notion that no men are marginalized by societal standards held by both men and women, as to the worth of being “a real man”, and the rest.
It exists.

I don’t think the article is saying that.

But – let’s reverse this thinking – do you really think that no women are marginalized by societal standards held by both men and women?

Would anyone deny the “Barbie Doll” image which has been imposed on the minds of young girls?
You have only to look at the female side of the “First Family” to see this.

That young girls in America are pushed to anorexia and bulimia by the values taught them by our media.

How often have you seen a male on TV cleaning a toilet bowl in a commercial?

And how about the media articles which for so long have taught young women “How to please a man.”

And there are many more ways that females have been “stereotyped” which could still be discussed.

And it’s a very appropriate moment to also acknowledge the actual and real violence done to females in our societies by males – often now with a gun – but in cases of domestic violence by husbands, by ex-boyfriends and ex-husbands and other males.

Too many males in our societies still hold conscious and unconscious fear of women which is reflected often in relationship problems. Too many males still hold the view that they must be the dominant partner in the relationship. That they must be the bread-winner and protector of the family.

Many women have had experiences where men aren’t honest with themselves about these feelings and women don’t recognize them until they find themselves undermined by them – sometimes by domestic violence – sometimes by the male partner causing problems with the female’s employment or friends – and in other ways until either the woman surrenders to the way he needs things to be – or she leaves.


#18

That quote was directed at the poster, not specifically at that author. FYI.

And your reverse argument is rhetorically asserting some position that I’m at an infintesimal rhetorical distance from taking, let alone considering.

Seriously, your entire post has no relevance whatsoever to what I was addressing in my reply to the poster.

Your post essentially asserts that I’m making arguments at odds with your feminist position. Nothing could be further from the truth.


#19

Rainy –

Thank you … Your comment was wonderful – and makes clear what HATE can do.

For others who didn’t like the article …
I’d just add here that GENERALLY male violence continues to be an undiscussed
subject in the US.

During the Vietnam War years where we had more than 57,000 US soldiers ide on the
battlefield … 57,000 women in the US were also murdered by boyfriends, husbands,
ex-boyfriends and ex-husbands at the very same time.

Pretty much every day in the US, you will find a prominent story about the murder of
a woman by a male.

Right now, women have a 4X greater risk of being murdered by a male with a gun than
women in other similarly wealthy nations.

GENERALLY … there is no denying that many males in the US are violent and especially
towards females.

What the article stresses is – STOP THE HATRED.

And I’d encourage everyone to look for the sources of this hatred which sadly are often
introduced in Male-Supremacist religions which continue to preach the evil of women and
their “inferiority.”

And, the increasing pornography on the internet which teaches males – as young as 11
yeas old – that females are merely sexual objects who exist to please males – and that
they are only worthy of sexual abuse and sexual violence.
This is basic hateful propaganda against women in a very organized way. And it works!


#20

Yunzer –

Of course it is bigger than what you are suggesting –

Otherwise you would have to deny the universal/global suppression of females by patriarchal violence.
And violence is the only way that that suppression of females could be carried on.
This is true of all suppression/oppression … it takes violence.

That for some past decades that suppression had begun to be lifted had a great deal to do
with a belief in democracy as citizens felt free once more to walk away from male-dominated
religions here – and generally in Western European countries and Canada, etal.

Because of that the RCC began to write off these areas and now finds their new wealth in
Africa and China.

At one time we could hope it was the “last yelp of a dying mule.”

But democracy is certainly under attack once again here and in other nations with the rising once again of the right/fascism. Our CIA has long fought democracy here and everywhere. And assassinated democratically elected leaders in other nations … and, of course, in our own nation.

And that brings us once again to new attempts to oppress women – as we’re seeing from the White House/Trump and the henchmen he has brought with him. YES – it takes suppression overall of all of society males and females in order to carry out such oppressions for the benefit of Elites/fascists.