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'War With Iran Is Madness,' Declares MSNBC's Chris Hayes. 'Don't Believe Anyone Who Tells You Otherwise.'

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/07/war-iran-madness-declares-msnbcs-chris-hayes-dont-believe-anyone-who-tells-you

Trump is certainly more to blame at this point, but a long list of decisions by most of those in both parties led us here. Not impeaching Bush led us here (thanks Pelosi), not impeaching Nixon for his war crimes, or Reagan for what he did to Central America, voting for bloated military budgets got us here (yes you too Warren), economically relying on war led us here, Joe Biden led us here. The media led us here. The War on Terror and the Cold War. People like Clinton and Schumer opposed the Iran deal, people like them, Clinton’s war hawk friends like Nuland and Kagan, her pal Kissinger too. Trump would not be in a position to do this if it wasn’t for them all. The fact that Bolton, Bush, Cheney, Abrams and the rest walk freely, that too is why we are here.

Trump should be held responsible and this is an impeachable offense, but he won’t be held accountable as he should be. We must reflect about a lot more than just Trump. Like everything else in this failed, corrupt and broken political system, the entirety of our foreign policy establishment should be on trial, not just Trump.

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I can’t help but wonder if Chris Hayes would have made those statements (with which I wholeheartedly agree), if, say, Hillary Clinton, had done this.

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Chris Hayes is, like most X-Nation Magazine reporters and writers, better than most and likeable enough.

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Your comment will not be at all popular because you’re not wearing a Team Jersey. You’re not being partisan. Being objective is not well-received on D or R partisan sites, regardless of what they claim to be. When the anti-war demonstrations took place last weekend, I asked: Where were all of these people during the 8 years of Obama and his 8-10 wars? Well, he had a D next to his name and that’s the way partisan brainwashing works: One must not criticize one’s own team. Yet the same neocon wars that Obama continued from Bush had many of these same protesters in the streets. When these wars became “Obama’s wars,” the protests stopped because of partisan allegiance. That thinking (brainwashing) makes people hypocrites. “I only protest wars when there’s a R in the White House” is the mentality of most Democrats.

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The networks no longer even mention impeachment. Gee what a coincidence! Chris Hayes might be the exception but no one has had the guts except Warren to say the astoundingly obvious, that Trump risked going to war (and it is not over yet) just to wipe talk of his impeachment and removal off the network news shows. They do ask the question of why now but their guests never state the obvious. Trump’s cynical move (note that Trump is pretty much the last person you’d want to have the power to murder anyone by drone missiles or otherwise) literally brought us to the edge of war just to help himself politically. One has to applaud Warren’s gutsy truth telling. It stands out.

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So tRump has just tweeted, “All is Well.” …Speechless.

Well said. The UniParty Consensus on all matters beyond our shores needs to be decoupled. We need consensus on foreign policy matters like Dumpster Diver Trumpster needs more cheesy hair spray.
Time for a Brand New Congress, imo.

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Lots of posters here and this site critique Democrats from the left on foreign policy. But, at the same time, quoting someone like Warren on this issue is problematic, to say the least. She is decent on some issues, but she is absolutely atrocious on foreign policy, and she and those like her are very much responsible for Trump even being in a position to do this.

And what would Biden say, given his horrible record? He would attack Trump for this, Trump would attack him for Iraq, among other things. In a competition between those two as to who is worse, they would both win.

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You thinking Warren is uniquely brave on this issue is a bit much, gotta say. Bernie, Lee, Ro, Talib, Omar, have not only been much better on Iran, they all have much better records and outlooks on foreign policy. If you like Warren, fine, but this isn’t a means to gain her support. She is beyond problematic on foreign policy. Her relative strengths are clearly elsewhere.

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Term limits now!

Cheap shot and unnecessary at that on Warren. She stood up and it is to her credit. One can see why progressives are so weak by your comment. You criticize politicians for not standing up and then you don’t even credit one when they do. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Give credit where credit is due.

And pink barrio didn’t make any reference to Warren but I did. Seriously, you should be embarrassed.

She is fine on this action, but you making it seem as if she is uniquely strong is embarrassing. If you think for a second that people like her have nothing to answer to on foreign policy, I think you are either not very progressive on foreign policy or you are willfully ignorant. And, by the way, don’t give me some nonsense broad comment about progressives based on my comment. No one named me their spokesperson for the entirety of the left.

A lot of people in both parties should be critiqued for Trump being able to do this and for their foreign policy records, Warren included. Bernie is way better than she is, but he doesn’t have a perfect record either. He is much better than anyone else running, but not beyond critique. If you don’t want to divert the attention away from Trump too much, don’t pretend Warren is something she isn’t on this issue. And if progressives want to stop stuff like this, there has to be a systematic critique of our foreign policy. Trump is horrible and should be held accountable, he won’t be, but this is far beyond him.

By the way, a fucking Tweet or a word in a speech is fine, her not voting for our insane military budgets and all her horrible foreign policy votes far outweighs her damn comments on this.

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Are you responding to my saying that Warren stood up and said the obvious about why Trump did this or are you off on your standard anti Warren rant again? How about some honesty from you sometimes. You manipulate too much. Reading your posts often means puzzling out what you leave out even though you pretend to fairness and honesty. You constantly exaggerate against Warren and each time you avoid facing that you are attacking a progressive candidate and that people take those attacks as attacks on any progressive including Bernie simply because they share the same issues. The mainstream media set up that trap against the two progressives and even if you disagree the fact remains that no progressives see an attack on someone who has progressive values. So you have fun but you aren’t helping anyone really.

It is so bizarre that you excuse Biden in the way you did. I don’t know tonight what Biden would say but I doubt that he would have the courage that Warren did. My guess is that Biden wouldn’t criticize Trump but in fact, would support his decision because as the talking heads say . ‘That guy was a bad guy’. But Warren nailed Trump on the truth that all progressives see. Trump did this to get talk of his removal (since Bolton says he will testify) off the news circuit. Now it is all about Trump being the ‘der leader’. Except for Warren anyway.

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Also explain jow what I said was a “cheap shot”. It was a critique, and a large chunk of the left agrees with me. She has her strengths, foreign policy isn’t it.

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That’s a steamimg pile of horseshit. In 2011 OhBummer did issue a large troop drawdown in Iraq. He also erased his redline in the sand in Syria, albeit while eatin’ some crow. Oh Well! Unfortunately, he lost the House in 2010.
The " power of the purse " is a system of " horsetrading " between our systems/branches of gov’t. Learn to deal with that fact, please.
The Trumpster’s Team doesn’t believe in " horsetrading ". Until 2019, they believd in shooting the other teams’ horses. Which is a serious crime, unless your France or a company in the business of making pet food, pretty much.
" Quit lying about my record. " OhBummer channelling Ronnie Raygun.
It’s bad enough. Quit making it worse.

Except her stand on this was the import of my comment. You are off on your generalized rant that something must be done about our politicians. How about sticking to my actual comment? She did good imo and it was the truth. It goes down in the historical record and is very much to her credit and originality.

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Biden criticized Trump’s decision in NYC today. He’s slippery that way. Almost 50 years of lying helps.

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It was what it was. Pink Barrio didn’t bring up Warren so your gratuitous add on to your response to him was a cheap shot. Like you don’t know huh? Geeze!