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Watch Live: Elizabeth Warren Officially Launches 2020 Presidential Campaign


#24

Dr. King didn’t run for office, and a hallmark of his approach to civil rights was humility.

And unless you can supply a link to the bad, bad youth of Bernie Sanders, you should apologize.


#25

The NAACP is a stodgy mainstream organization that does not necessarily represent rank-and-file poor black Americans.

The KKK robes and blackface were costumes were puerile, ham-handed, alcohol-aided attempts at making fun of those institutions, not racism, just as Bernie Sanders’ obscene misogynistic article in that Vermont hippie newspaper was not actual misogyny.

BUT, the most important point is that these events happened 37 years ago. Are you the same person as 37 years ago. I’m sure not, thank-goodness.

Oh, and it has been leaked that Elizabeth Warren claimed Cherokee ancestry in a university application way back. She has since apologized to the Cherokee Nation for it. Case closed.


#26

I’m the same person who wouldn’t be racist or stupid enough to wear blackface or a KKK robe.

It’s not hard – just don’t do something racist and stupid.


#27

And thanks for your forgiveness of Brett Kavanaugh.


#28

Brett Kavanaugh’s current record is racist and misogynist - so he is an entirely different case.

And I am not speaking for any political party. I’m an independent who has worked on the campaigns of third-party or independent candidates for president 4 of the past 5 presidential elections. I just want to see even a little progress up that moral arc before I die.


#29

Exactly. What standard do we follow? The one that lets Trump and Kavanaugh serve, and has Frankin out in no time?
Do we litigate every candidate?
Do we somehow vote on whether Billy’s transgressions outweigh Sally’s? How many years back is taboo? How recent is it okay? What a morality mess Trump has led us into.


#30

As NPR stated:

"Sanders then goes on to explain his ideas about gender roles and eventually gets at a sharper point — that traditional gender roles help create troubling dynamics in men’s and women’s sex lives.

Many women seem to be walking a tightrope,” he writes, as their “qualities of love, openness, and gentleness were too deeply enmeshed with qualities of dependency, subservience, and masochism.”

One way to read the essay is that Sanders was doing (in a supremely ham-handed way) what journalists do every day: draw the reader in with an attention-getting lede, then get to the meat of the article in the middle.

You can draw divergent conclusions from the article itself. On the one hand, he’s talking about liberating people from harmful gender norms. On the other, with his nameless hypothetical “man-and-woman” characters, he also seems to imply that men fantasize about raping women or that women fantasize about being raped.


#31

No. I fully agree with the NPR article’s interpretation of the Sander’s article. Hippie men could be very misogynistic (and of course extreme homophobic) in the young Sander’s day, and he was addressing that.

But the most important point is that even if he were a brutal misogynist 47 years ago, that has absolutely no bearing on the person he is now.

Recall that that is why we on the left support rehabilitation over incarceration and especially oppose capitals punishment.

I think that we are arguing past each other. I’ve gotta go.


#32

The Al Franken and Bill Clinton situations pre-date Trump.

Al Franken resigned and expressed regret. His choice, pushed by his party.


#33

What’s your point? I’m referring to the appearance of a double standard.


#34

This sounds reasonable and I can see how some parties would be best served by such a process, but I don’t know how we would get there. An aggrieved party is still free to go public unless they have to sign a non-disclosure agreement before the restitution process (but they may have good public before that). Though the current process is messy, it may be that it has the potential to knock people out of their previous way of thinking. I’d have preferred if MLK or anyone else who wants to have sex outside of marriage simply had an open relationship and conducted their affairs only with people they did not have a supervisory relationship to or an obvious position of power over. And in pursuit of any relationship, certain behavior is ok, and other behavior is over the line.

Can people go over the line, but not that far over and still be amazing contributors to society - sure. Was that easier in the past - yep. But what we are going to actually do now isn’t at all obvious.

On the blackface controversy - I am not African American, so I don’t have that perspective, but I do notice on the Northam’s wikipedia page that:

  1. He supports moving all confederate statues he has jurisdiction over to museums.

  2. He supports raising the minimum wage to $15/hr

  3. Has a plan for free community college with 1 year of paid public service

  4. Favors decriminalizing marijuana

All positions that would affect the African American community a lot more than some stupid thing he did as a teenager or young adult. If they end up with a Republican governor over this, I’m sure many in all communities are going to regret it.

This one surprised me:

Northam belongs to a black Baptist church in Capeville, Virginia[85][182][183] and serves as the vice chair of the Fort Monroe Authority, which oversees Fort Monroe, a Civil War historic site where Union General Benjamin Butler sheltered freed slaves.[184]

I wonder what his church has said - maybe if they were vocal standing behind him, this could blow over (and I say this as an atheist - but people especially in the south are crazy for their Christianity).


#35

I think this 2nd comment in this thread on E Warren is the last one that mentions her. Oops.


#36

Let’s all wait and see who else is going to be running in the dem party. This is beginning to be one big circus. How many more will jump in the race-- . There might be 20-25 candidates running.


#37

The d-party holds itself to a higher standard. That’s noble. It’s also a reflection of their need to play to identity politics – offending black people and women – two of their vital constituencies, is not something they can take lightly.

Conversely, the r-party has the luxury of playing to an almost exclusively white christian base who would forgive the likes of Kavanaugh and Trump for everything and anything, as long as they oppose abortion…


#38

Warren would be wonderful at supporting the most important issue, economic inequality, which threatens every other issue including democracy, along with a broad progressive agenda.

She’s my second choice after Bernie, also possessing in my opinion less personal ambition than some others have that I think clouds their politics somewhat. She’s in it for morals.

My main concern is that we nominate a progressive and not a centrist. It’s time for the party to move itself and the country to a return to strong progressive policies and undo 50 years of Reagan.

The alternative is to go from economic inequality being the most important to the very defense of democracy, which is already violated heavily by Republicans.


#39

The 17 Republicans who ran in 2016 were a “circus”. 25 Democratic progressives running would not be a circus but an embarrassment of riches.


#40

It’s not a swamp, it’s a cesspool — with the K-Street sewer flowing directly into it!

Tweetle-Dumb is “our” Presidunce because the utterly corrupt DNC nominated an arrogant stooge obviously in thrall to Wall Street, the Banksters, Big Insurance and Big Pharma — possibly the only candidate that Hair Drümpf could have (barely) beaten.

Liz (or Beth) isn’t perfect, and neither is Bernie – but as Zujo pointed out above, like Bernie, she has held the same positions for roughly 40 years.  I wrote in “Bernie & 'Beth” in both 2012 and 2016, and
will support “Beth and (another progressive)” in 2020 if I’m still around.


#41

That’s the sad thing about Northam – he doesn’t seem to be a racist.

But here’s the thing: How much common sense does it take to NOT wear blackface or a KKK robe?

I also want to make this point one more time in this thread: There are many commenters decrying the ‘purity police’ who hold Northam to an unreasonable standard, but the overwhelming majority of the d-party establishment wants him to resign. Those commenters need to reflect on their party as a whole instead of resorting automatically to hippie punching whenever their party is faced with another self-imposed crisis.


#42

Word progressive means nothing to me if they support endless war and more of the same garbage the democratic party in general stands for.


#43

I was just pondering that. Be great if these dems sat at a table and elected one to run. Then 25 candidates could release 5 million each to feed homeless and poor folk.