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We Are Already At War With China


We Are Already At War With China

Ira Chernus

I was in Waikiki, Hawaii, recently. But not for pleasure. I was there out of obligation, fulfilling my parental duty to visit my son and his husband, who live there. I’ll admit, though, that I was getting some pleasure, looking out from the balcony of the 19th floor studio apartment I had rented. Across the street there were none of the high-rise buildings that block the view from most Waikiki balconies. Instead, there was a large, lush park.


Other Super Powers look at the United States 700+ Military bases and wonder what our Endgame is.

If maintaining Empire costs us our lives, is it worth it?

I'm sure if we continue to vote for the same two old parties that have betrayed us and sold our futures to the corporations, we will fail to achieve any real Peace, at home or in the world.


Despite the government propaganda, it is as it always has been, a battle between tribes for energy and resources. The endgame is preserving your society and the path is either diplomacy (sharing) or warfare (stealing). I prefer diplomacy but clearly that is not the direction in which we are headed. Once you build your military to the point you think you cannot lose then you use it because it gives you the best chance of winning and after you win you don't have to share. Ask Hitler how that worked out.


Depends on how you define Empire. If you define it as lifestyle then how much are you willing to give up? Personally I am willing to give up a lot but my guess is that most Americans aren't. If most Americans aren't, then the elected politicians will pursue a path to the future that satisfies their supporters. There is a peaceful path to the future but we won't take it as it would entail a reduction in lifestyle and some sharing with the rest of the world.


That 12th aircraft carrier task force Trump wants?

Historians will note the irony that accompanies a hot war with China. In the Second World War, Japan attacked the USA at Pearl Harbor and the clock started ticking. That clock told how much time it would take before the overwhelming manufacturing capability of the USA could out manufacture/out resource Japan. Japan erroneously believed in a delusional knock out blow that having destroyed much of the Pacific Fleet would cause the USA to lose the will to fight. It, of course, did the exact opposite. However the Japanese also gambled that they would be able to use the width of the Pacific to their advantage and could stave off retaliation and eventual defeat.

All that works in reverse with Trump. His capacity for delusion - or rather for autocratic delusion is as risky as was that of the Imperial Japanese. Trump envisions a manufacturing capability from another era and seems unable to adjust to a new reality. China is the manufacturing powerhouse today and in the place where once the USA was the manufacturing powerhouse of yesteryear.

Some people will object that such a critical comment is not patriotic enough but then that same lack of open criticism is what allowed Japan to ignore the facts prior to Pearl Harbor. The iron of irony in this case is that America has built up the manufacturing capacity of China and allowed itself to become dependent on that manufacturing at the same time.

America boasts and parades its military capabilities in the media. Look at how we are # 1 in military might, we constantly say. Yet prior to Pearl Harbor the true strength of our military might was implied by our phenomenal manufacturing capacity. To have had any chance to beat us at all, Japan would have needed to invade the west coast with a massive army and head overland across the Rockies and Great Plains to destroy the manufacturing centers in the east. Not likely, in fact, so unlikely yet necessary, one wonders at the autocratic hubris that resulted in their attack Pearl Harbor delusion.

All of that works in reverse for us. China does not need to maintain a huge military just as we didn't need to in the thirties either. We could build up a huge military in literally months because of our manufacturing dominance and did so. Prior to Pearl Harbor our true military might was implicit...

...but now China's military might is implicit whereas we would need to cross the Pacific and invade to win...or ...


Or...wage a very, very hot type of hot war. Would a nuclear hot war cook all our gooses? How delusional does an autocratic leadership have to be to consider that gamble?


Not really sure what lifestyle changes you're referring to, but, Hell Yeah!

Empire to me is maintaining 700+ Military bases all over the world to serve corporate interests, protection, etc.

Imagine if we didn't have to supply these bases with people, petroleum, and Bombs and bullets.

We'd all get a big freaking tax cut.

What other Super power has a handful of other military bases outside their country?

It will require a different way of thinking and behaving.

Being 'Big Brother' of the world is literally killing our country, our Democracy, our future Peace.


You have walked into the trap of accepting the proposition that the Empire is responsible for our relatively high standard of living, and that the end of the Empire means it will decline. There is no reason to think so. Those finance capitalists who plunder the world in our name do not share their booty with the rest of us. The Empire is a tool to get us on the treadmill which is a race to the bottom. We are allowed only to work to pay for the killing machine which the Empire wields. Ending the Empire and restoring the Republic is the way forward.


"Or...wage a very, very hot type of hot war. Would a nuclear hot war cook all our gooses? How delusional does an autocratic leadership have to be to consider that gamble?"
* Frankly, as a nuclear veteran (Operation Redwing, Marshall Islands, 1956), who has seen WW-III up close and too personal, I have worked and written against war in general and nuclear war specifically for decades.
* These godawful clowns who run our government and ferment its policies have no idea as to what they are proposing with all this saber-rattling. Most of them seem to think that nuclear weapons are just bigger firecrackers. Ask the Rongalapese and other Marshall Islanders who are still suffering from birth defects, cancers, and other diseases from the testing, who cannot trust the food that they grow or catch, but must for the most part depend on foods shipped in to the islands.
* Ask the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, ask those who survived Chernobyl, or those families who still suffer from the genetic and health effects of the Chernobyl "accident". Ask those who are suffering from Fukushima's "accident", including not only Japan, but the West Coast of Alaska, Canada and the West Coast of the US. They are even getting radiation down the South and Central American coast.
* Ask the families of Nuclear Veterans, many now long dead from cancers, about the birth defects in their families since the tests. Ask those who lived in Nevada and Utah during and after the nuclear testing there.
* And yet, we keep hearing that crap from our war mongering government and the Oilagarchy that runs it. Why? Enormous short term profits for the billionaires and trillionaires that make arms for the military (and sell world-wide to anyone who can afford to buy)! If peace were ever declared, their profits would decrease. That is why the government has the CIA and various dark ops special forces units. If peace threatens, they know how to cause that to fail and the tensions to rise.
* Full Spectrum Dominance is just a wet dream amongst the Neocons and their lackies. Sooner or later, someone is going to push the button and several thousand nuclear missiles are going to head for their programmed targets. A few hours later, the survivors will start feeling the effects of Armageddon, up close and personal. Even the Oilagarchy will find they are not immune, even in their protected habitats.
* It is up to us to keep protesting these endless wars, throw out these lackeys of the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Complex that currently drives and controls us. Get rid of the duopoly that foists ever increasingly unstable "leaders" upon us, to do their bidding.
* This is incumbent not only upon We the People of the US Fourth Reich, but upon the People of the World as well. The course of the world at present is to incalculable tragedy and suffering, all for the short term profits of the Oilagarchy.
* Think about it.


The money-changers are running the temple.

Direct Online Democracy


We seem to be at war with any country or entity we don't dominate or control. Like in Russia, the Chinese oligarchs will help us win this war by subverting the country from within to protect their interests abroad and at home.


What are we fighting for?
couple of crumbs?

We need the US government to sponsor another study so we can we have something new, like the internet, that a few companies can profit from, and we can call some of the technology they use proprietary, and some of the materials used in a high grade weapon mined by slave labor in a third world country precious metal? Look, Very soon eastern nations will have more know how on critical subjects than the American Citizenry who can't go to college. Then we will be at the mercy of those "nation states." Will that be the point of inflection where we start to say "Share and share alike"?

Umm Sure. There is too many of us.
I can't even get so see my daughter.


Now there is some food for thought-
That is exactly what they have always seen in peace- A threat to their overly gorged lifestyles....


Well-said. If peace threatens. Once I reviewed ten years of comments on North Korea. What a broken record. No desire for peace on our part.