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'We Cannot Overstate the Harm This Decision Will Have': Oklahoma Judgue Upholds Ban on Common Abortion Procedure

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/12/we-cannot-overstate-harm-decision-will-have-oklahoma-judgue-upholds-ban-common

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These attacks on abortion show these state’s disregard for women –
not only their health – but their lives.

This is a use of government by Dinosaurs to continue the War on Women –

Seriously, this is a civil rights issue that is morphing into a criminal justice nightmare. Where is your estrogen when you really need it.?

Excellent article. Thanks very much.

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fern –

It’s a very basic issue of the loss of life of women as happened
pre-the 1973 Roe decision.

And I can vouch that many more women than those that died came very
close to losing their lives after illegal abortions only due to emergency care
at Emergency Rooms at local hospitals at that time. That included Catholic
Hospitals whose doctors responded as they should at that time.

Today, there is no way to say what would happen to a woman who may
sometime in the near future have an “illegal abortion” because it may be
less financially costly for her – and the abortionist only begins the process
of the abortion because he/she does not in any way want to be connected
to it – and further likely would not have the medical know-how to perform
a D&C – or stop hemorrhaging.

Still, though hospitals did respond – it was obvious that those in charge of
our laws were willing to let young girls/women DIE if they chose an illegal
abortion. Just tough luck for them. Many didn’t make it to the hospital.

Today, one in every six hospitals is a Catholic hospital.
Reportedly they require that any woman seemingly suffering a miscarriage
be turned away because it COULD be the result of an incomplete abortion.
This is how patriarchy works to continue its oppressions of women.

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I’m really at a loss for words here, I do recognize how dangerous these laws are, it has far reaching consequences for all women in need of healthcare. It is abominable that being a female subjects you to criminal penalties for decisions you make regarding your own health. The loss of life issue is real and already happening. I also agree about the religious intervention into healthcare that violate best practice rules. It was bad enough when medical research was for the most part studied on men by men and then adapted for women. Somewhere along the line someone figured out that women are different and have different needs. There are still remnants of this though out healthcare and beyond.

I wasn’t sure where to find you and it’s off topic but I wanted to share this:

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Glad you agree –

I don’t quite understand however your comment that “you didn’t know where to
find me” … ???

17 years of BS war in Iraq – and NO WMD – but a lot of OIL now under US/CIA control.

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I wanted to share the link and wasn’t quite sure where to do it is all. I’m not sure if you know but Barbara Lee was the only one to vote against this authorization and it must be rewarding that her bill passed to end it.

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Incorrect, this is how rumor start/spread. A Catholic hospital will provide medical care for a woman who has suffered a miscarriage. However, they will not purposefully end the life of the unborn child.

TJ -

Sorry, but there have been reports of this happening –
and as long as Catholic Hospitals control 1 in every 6 of our hospitals
it will remain a threat to women and their lives.

Remember, there WAS ACTUALLY a time when in a Catholic Hospital they
did make it policy to save the life of the newborn rather than the life of the
mother. Husbands and families finally figured this out – at great cost to them
of the loss of their wives and daughters – and stopped using Catholic hospitals.

Let’s also wake up to the reality that Catholics support ALL reproductive health
care for women including CHOICE –
and that Catholic women have just as many abortions as other women.
In other nations, of course, they have to secure abortions where they can and in
Ireland 200 a week (likely more today) travel to the UK to secure an abortion.

The Catholic Church (in denial of Vatican II) still continues to preach obedience
to their members in regard to their teachings – denying them the right of free
conscience, free thought and free will.

The right wing in the RCC rose up at the beloved Pope John XXIII’s Vatican II
which told Catholics to use their own consciences to decide for themselves in regard
to whether or not to use contraception. It created a democracy in the RCC which
didn’t make the fascists in control too happy.

A Catholic hospital (nor any hospital) cannot turn away a woman in need of urgent medical care. They can refuse to conduct procedures that they find morally objectionable. A woman who is having a difficult/high risk pregnancy who requests a procedure that will result in the intentional death of the child will be refused that procedure, but will not be turned away if she is in immediate medical danger. Big difference.

I knew there were a lot of Catholic hospitals, I did not know it was 1 in 6. I do know that there are so many Catholic hospitals because various Catholic organizations raised money to build, staff and run these hospitals as an act of charity and mercy as part of their ministry.

Prior to birth there are two patients whose care is integrally tied. Again, Catholic hospitals recognize the humanity of the unborn child and will not pursue treatments that purposely kill the child, even if it would benefit the mother.

Catholics supporting abortion does not make it right. Science tells us an unborn child is a human being with its own intrinsic value. Therefore, killing the unborn child is as morally repugnant and evil as killing a 1-month old infant, 1-year old baby, 15-yearold teen or full grown adult.

Yes the Catholic church preaches obedience. You still have free-will, you can act in ways in conflict with God’s will, it is called sin.

I think the role of medical intervention is much broader than most religious doctrines allow for. One is evolving and the other tradition. I don’t think patriarchal religions really understand the agreement between a woman and giving birth to another human being. They either don’t know or are not motivated to say, but instead insert influence and control to the point of letting a woman die. Seriously, are you saying that women can’t know or make decisions about their own bodies and should be jailed if they do. Do you know that happens all the time.

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TJ – It has already been reported as having happened.

And you’re speaking of the Catholic Church and “morals” suggesting a connection
of some kind?

We have Catholic hospitals because the government continues to
turn over hospitals over to the Catholic Church.

Prior to birth there are two patients whose care is integrally tied. Again, Catholic hospitals recognize the humanity of the unborn child and will not pursue treatments that purposely kill the child, even if it would benefit the mother.

Again, in the past, Catholic hospitals were guilty of saving the newborn at the
expense of the life of the mother. And when this became recognized, those who
knew stopped using Catholic hospitals.

The “humanity of a child” doesn’t mean much to the Catholic Church once they’re
in range of a Catholic pedophile priest, does it?

In that case, the RCC has acted only to preserve its own skin – and to protect the priest.

Your personal need to see women suffer without therapeutic abortions to save their
lives, to save their health and to save their future fertility doesn’t make your thinking right.

Again – Catholic women are exercising their own free will, their own consciences in
every decision they make in regard to abortion of necessity and abortion of CHOICE.

The teachings of this male-supremacist religion based in racism, sexism, anti-Semitism,
homophobia and to create intolerance and hatred for native people as they have long
done have only profited the Elites/Patriarchy they underpin in their quest for Empire and
stolen land. And it was all done with the greatest violence the world has ever seen.

Clearly, in order to support this male-supremacist religion any longer the supporters will
be only those who support male-supremacist thinking.

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Are you suggesting a lack of connection? If you were to look into Catholic teaching instead of blindly cashing the RCC, you would find that it does provide a solid moral base and that the within the RCC are the result of actions in conflict with that moral guidance.

I know of Catholic hospitals that have converted to secular, but not the other way. Either way, the existence of a Catholic health care system is the result of charity and mercy of the Catholics and it has provided health care to many where it would otherwise not be available.

You make it sound like there was a withholding of treatment out of spite for the mother. Catholic hospital have not and will not perform a procedure that purposely kills the child (or the mother). This is valuing both lives equally.

Another cheap shot against the RCC, which also happens to be untrue. Yes, there were priests that abused their authority to abuse children and their actions were covered up. And both groups deserve to be locked up for their actions. However since the scandal came to light there have been massive steps within the RCC to root out th eoffenders, prevent future occurances and to reach out to the victims. So, no, this behavior is not tolerated in the RCC.
And a few other facts on this issue; 1) Since the early 2000’s the RCC has been a leader in establishing protocols for protecting children from abuse, 2) the percentage of pedophiles within the RCC is actually on par with the overall population, 3) this abuse is in direct violation of Catholic teaching on sexuality.

Actually, Catholic doctrine (and therefore the teachings of the RCC) do not allow for (and actually condemns) racism, sexism, anti-semitism, homophobia nor intolerance and hatred for any peoples.

Really, Armenian Genocide, Rape of Nanjing, Rwandan Genocide - that list is off the top of my head.

No, I am saying that the child is a unique individual, not part of the mother’s body, and that killing that person is wrong.

Ok, and I’m saying that the agreement between a women and (baby spirit, whatever) is between them and that doesn’t include you, me, and a long list of others. It is a fluid agreement that is created and broken and changed all the time. In your narrative, “not part of the mother’s body” is just false. Until there is a fully developed infant capable of surviving as “not part of a mother’s body” (and medical intervention has changed that definition) someone has to decide. Obviously by world population statistics baby spirits are fairly capable. This is about who decides. It also criminalizes creation.

TJ –

Maybe you better look into Catholic teachings and their preaching of hatred
and intolerance for much of the population of the world for their own profit –

Either you missed this or you chose to ignore it in order to continue to support
this violent and male-supremacist religion …

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion

Sweeping apology for attacks on Jews, women and minorities defies theologians’ warnings
World news
Pope says sorry for sins of church
Sweeping apology for attacks on Jews, women and minorities defies theologians’ warnings.
Rory Carroll in Rome
@rorycarroll72
Monday 13 March 2000 06.37 EST First published on Monday 13 March 2000 06.37 EST
Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.

From the altar of St Peter’s Basilica in Rome he led Catholicism into unchartered territory by >seeking forgiveness for sins committed against Jews, heretics, women, Gypsies and native >peoples.

At the link you will find more details on RCC oppressions of “Heretics, Jews, Women”

And today is no different in regard to the RCC which continues to try to defend its 1000+
years of preaching of hatred and intolerance for homosexuals in order to encourage violence
against them and to encourage their parents to abandon them. All of which they succeeded
in doing.

You continue to pretend not to understand what is being said to you –
The practice of Catholic hospitals into the 1950’s to save the newborn rather
than the mother did exist and families began to abandon those hospitals.

and …

The care of pregnant women in Catholic hospitals - Denver …
denvercatholic.org/care-pregnant-women-catholic…
At the beginning of December, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a sweeping federal lawsuit against the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops over its Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic hospitals, alleging that the directives, with their prohibition against direct abortion, resulted in negligent care of a pregnant woman named Tamesha Means.

You are knee-deep in Catholic propaganda –
The church itself has been one of the most active organizations ever to exist
in spreading vile propaganda about others across the globe.
And having it believed by people like you.

The Vatican itself demanded that the church be protected from the “scandal” of
pedophile priests. And the cover up continues on.

And, in fact, the RCC has FOUGHT every effort to improve accountability of their
priests – still fighting the lifting of Statutes of Limitations which would permit their
victims to have a longer period of time to bring charges against priests.
Fortunately, in NJ this has happened as one of our State legislators fought the
RCC and its lawyers for nearly two decades.

American GENOCIDE against the Native people here was carried out by Papal
Edicts to “Enslave or Kill” them and Africans already enslaved here.
Columbus did not come alone – he had family connections to the Vatican and
dedicated himself to spreading “Christianity” here.

Further, Our Founders also established Church Schools here to further the
campaign against the Natives here in forcing their children into these schools run
by the Mormon Church and the Catholic Church – often the children were kidnapped
from their parents who were not permitted to visit them.

The children were tortured in these “Christian” schools – not permitted to speak in
their own languages, beaten, hung, murdered in these schools – and, of course,
sexually abused.

The top of your head seems to be limited to hearing and reading only Catholic Church lies.

The government bails out hospitals which are failing and passes them on to the RCC.

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Interesting link you posted. I validate some of that experience. I was cautioned as a young person about medical services at catholic hospitals. (when privacy was still an issue) It doesn’t stop there but there is a transition happening, they are moving out of managed care because they lost a lot of money. Also, a reduction in religious iconography. No more crosses and other icons. If they subscribe to anything other than best medical practice, it should be posted in each facility. Research hospitals often include that provision and our consent in the fine print. It really is a depraved subject. I know women that had their children at home, one started their own birthing clinic.

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