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What Don’t You Know About the Trump/Russia Connection?


#1

What Don’t You Know About the Trump/Russia Connection?

Bill Moyers

If you’re having trouble finding your way through the blizzard of facts, leaks, rumors and lies howling around the Trump/Russia connection, we have just the guide for you.


#2

The bottom line:


#3

This “Russia hacking” investigation, I hope goes all the way to trumps links to the Russian oligarchs, bankers, mob ((not only “the Kremlin”) and other trump business/banker ties around the world!

I also hope there is some investigation/resolution, beside the speculation, conjecture, and open BS of many aspects of potential cover-up to the unsolved murder of the Dem staffer Seth Rich (not to subscribe to right-wing talking heads blather or Faux “news”) - the supposed links between Rich, leaked, (not hacked) docs in a drop-box w/password containing the (stolen) Dem docs and Wikileaks publishing them, un-named FBI operative or “report” confirming Rich’s involvement, claimed recording by Seymour Hersh detailing all above.
The timing of the murder, the publishing, and many seeming diversions, obfuscations, denials, weirdness and supposed “debunkings”, along with no arrest or apparent ongoing investigation leave me wondering and suspicious…the whole damn thing is just too hinkey!


#4

One very disturbing thing about people as experienced as Moyers and this lawyer Harper assessing Trump, is the “rosy by omission” view they present of democracy in the USA.

Harper says of the reason for his Trump / Russia timeline project: “… I do believe it’s central to the survival of democracy in America, and I still think it goes to the core question of Trump’s legitimacy as president.”

If i may: For fuck’s sake, democracy in America?

Just to cherry-pick a few plump fruits:

Reagan was caught red-handed selling arms on the black market to “our” supposedly sworn enemy the Islamic republic of Iran, in order to black-book finance the illegal Contra war in Nicaragua after having funding explicitly cut off by an act of Congress. Nothing at all happened to Reagan. Who also by the way invaded tiny Grenada on entirely “fake news” pretenses, to start to unravel the so-called “Viet Nam Syndrome” and get the US public back into war cheerleader mode. Congress cheered that little war, and then also cheered the far worse crime that Bush Sr. carried out in invading Panama, again on “fake news” false pretenses to ramp up the strategic attack on the Viet Nam Syndrome, slaughtering thousands of Panamanian civilians in the process. Nothing at all was done about Bush Sr.'s crimes, which led “us” to invade Iraq for the first time, which led to…

i could go on and on and on, but, democracy in the USA has been under concerted, full-frontal, strategic assault for decades.

Yes Trump carries the utter degradation into full public spectacle. But this show has been playing for decades, and the responsibility for Trump is carried by the entirety of the US political and corporate media establishment. Moyers as something of a rare exception of relative honesty in the media spectrum, but dammit, man up Bill! Give us a far more meaningful, useful, comprehensive narrative, not fall into this “All Russia, All The Time” intentionally distracting singular focus on Trump as the “lone henchman” who is killing the USA and the Earth.


#5

Mr. Harper’s sources are The New York Times, The Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal, there’s a trifecta for you. These three are leading the neocon onslaught against Russia, not Putin, Russia, Putin is the whipping boy. There is much to comment on regarding this piece, one example should suffice to show the danger of relying on only the three sources mentioned-- the Magnitsky case and Mr. Browder. Here’s Robert Parry:

If this is fake news or propaganda, in a free society it should be shown and revealed as such, not censored.


#6

Anyone with the slightest bit of perspicacity would realize immediately that the chances that Putin would have instituted a policy to intervene in the US election for the benefit of Trump are remote. Before the election, Trump was considered a long shot to win, and any interference by Putin would most likely have resulted in an extremely hostile relationship with a President Hillary Clinton, something that the astute and clever Putin would be determined to avoid.

So, if sophisticated and clever people know that Putin did not interfere in any significant way to help Trump win, and obviously sophisticated and clever people control the corporate giants that control the MSM, why does the MSM continue to pursue this story line? Most likely it serves as a welcome distraction to keep the little people from considering the bigger issues that Bernie was talking about during the campaign, for example the issues key to the economic future of the US and the maintenance of a large and strong middle class.

The plutocrats hope to run out the clock for the next four years until they can insert another globalist puppet, as Hillary Clinton would have been, to continue dismantling the middle class and integrating the US into a system of world governance where distant bureaucrats, ostensibly acting in the interests of all the world’s people but actually acting in the interests of certain extremely wealthy and powerful interests, make policy decisions under international agreements that will overrule US law, erasing all political power, and eventually all rights, of the US citizens.

What too few understand is that in a post-nationalist world, one run by globalist elites and their minions, your vote counts zero. All the big decisions will be made in far-off places by billionaires and giant multinational corporations that will control the regulatory bodies. It means the common people will have no way to pressure the decision-makers into considering their interests, and, so, inevitably their interests over time will be completely ignored. It basically means a rollback of all the gains over the centuries in political rights and political power for the common people and the formation of a new type of society, though really a rehash of feudalism, run by super elites with no say by the average citizen.


#7

I think Bill Moyers deserves some thanks for putting the new timeline out there. It must have been quite a task putting it together. Mueller’s team should be busy for a long time trying to untangle all the leads to possible wrongdoing by Trump.


#8

Brilliant Webster!


#9

Your conspiracy theory regarding plutocrats of course could be wrong. I don’t believe it. Two ex-CIA agents conjectured in a recent NY Times opinion piece that the Russians may have started out just looking for intelligence information related to Clinton without any thought of helping Trump. It could have been only later that the idea of using the hacked e-mails to help Trump emerged.


#10

Some things to consider that rarely get mentioned in this Russia “connection” frenzy.

Using foreign intelligence sources to get dirt on an opponent in an American presidential election is nothing new. It dates back decades. The Russians didn’t just invent this in 2016. Furthermore, this country has been interfering in the elections of other countries, by various means, for decades.

It’s more than just a little hypocritical for Democrats to now proclaim themselves as the guardians of democracy in this country, protecting it from those evil Russians, when they, themselves, have been part of destroying it. What’s actually left of democracy in this country to protect? A major player in the loss of our democracy is now all of a sudden worried about losing it to the Russians? Anyone who buys into this has no business laughing at Trump supporters for being so gullible.

The oft quoted proof, supplied by sources in the current intelligence community, that the Russians did it, is not universally accepted by all members of that community nor by former members of that community nor by some outside experts. Nevertheless, this has been repeated so often that it is now accepted as gospel by those with an axe to grind.

Even if the Russians did it, there is no proof that the dirty laundry exposed by the leaked DNC emails had any effect on Clinton’s chances in the election. It should also be noted that the party has done nothing in response to the emails other than daily blaming the Russians for exposing them.

Meanwhile, Trump and his cabinet continue to destroy the planet while the MSM and establishment Democrats get they daily fix of Russiagate. Even if this gets rid of Trump, Pence and others are standing in line to take his place.


#11

While I esteem Moyers and do not dispute the importance or validity of Steven Harper’s investigation, am I the only one to gag of the hypocrisy when reading these sentences:

“…interference with a presidential election with a specific aim to determine the outcome, and with a specific aim to determine the outcome in favor of someone who already has some connections [to AMERICA] … no longer have the sanctity of the vote because a foreign power can interfere in ways — whether it’s through a fake news bombardment of the populace through bots or whether it’s changing electoral totals on machines — the effect is just as insidious, it’s just as dramatic and it’s just as bad”

What about all the nasty overthrowing/interferences of foreign governments world wide that the U.S. has instigated???


#12

Pity poor putin. Is there an appropriate card to send?


#13

Both Democrats and a number of Republicans want to investigate this. If you have been following what is going on in Congress you should know that. Members of both parties are very concerned about the possibility of Russia undermining our elections. The investigation in the Senate in particular, which is led by Republicans, seems to be pursing this in a serious manner. Trump may have violated the law. Sounds like you just want to look the other way.


#14

Is ANYONE in the US political establishment the LEAST BIT concerned about serial, decades-long US undermining of elections and democracy and LIFE in dozens of countries?

No, they all just want US to look the other way.


#15

Folks here have such a high, very high, opinion of putin. Maybe he’s just a nasty opportunistic leader of a corrupt oligarchy. He takes what he can get, and right now he’s got Trump.


#16

Whether they do or not, many of us do, and yet see it as no justification for the Trump corruption.


#17

Please refer to a single instance IN THIS THREAD of “high regard” for Putin.

Your endless “poke poke” content-free “contributions” in these threads are intended to distract from what is actually being discussed, and create an omnipresent straw man to attack.


#18

Please refer to a single instance IN THIS THREAD of “justification for the Trump corruption.”

BWilliamson, straw man practitioner extraordinaire.


#19

If you wantto prtecy your. Past ans posdily current crimes Ypu put forward Bills and initiate programs that enrich your own nations oligarchs, the true holders of power.
Then you scare the hell put of entrenched bureaucracy b threatening their jobs.
It ia all those fed agencies mission to protect the health and eelfare of the prpple first and foremost.
Agencies that once began, such as EPA became no more than professional defrayer of any populace rnvironmental movemeents from gaining direct access to the corpirste criminals.
HILLARY’S STATE DEPT enriching yhe Clinton Foundatoon voffers for favorable trade,aid and military tools.
Hillary’s selling millions of acres in Northern Oregon Sage Grouse Brush habitat of militia fame.

The circles where these guys are wined and dined and who and the hrll believes yheir yjree News Organizatoons are anything but enablers to US Security and are all guilty of crimes of wiknk blink
smilesstand off.ussian and Cansdian mining concerns.
Hillary uping the alloeable limit of irradiated foods to USmalso raised.prrmissable radiation limits all over US.
These fellas have been great Bullsjitters for years upon Political/military and financial cortuptoon; And the results pf book writings, paid stump junvkets etc.
Both these people will mot admit yo fact thst representative Democracy has been dead for a long time


#20

Wrong. I would rather put my energy and focus on stopping the damage Trump and his associates are doing to this planet, each and every day and make no mistake about it, the clock is ticking. Compared to this, the long shot that anyone can even prove that Trump broke a law in his dealing with Russia and then use it in an equally long shot to impeach Trump is wasting precious energy and resources. It’s little more than prosecuting a mass murderer for J walking. Your call, though. If you want to sit around and stayed tuned for the next exciting episode of Russiagte, go for it.