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'Where Will Everyone Go?' New Report Documents How Climate Migration Could Reshape US

isn’t it somewhere north of antarctica? (smirk)


i’m surprised to be the first one to love your comment. it’s the harsh, horrible truth. when this shit goes down in the coming decades, there will be hugely unprecedented suffering and death. by the end of this century, world population will quite likely have crashed back down to levels not seen since before the 20th century; i.e. well under 2 billion. that’s assuming we aren’t already extinct, which shouldn’t be assumed!

for those of u who think we ‘doomers’ are way too pessimistic, i suggest u read a couple of books: SIX DEGREES by mark lynas and UNDER A GREEN SKY by peter ward.


The thing is, the planet Earth could support 9 billion people IF they did not live as people do, and that is consuming for the sake of consuming and destroying ecosystems so as to “make more money”.

It the desire for more stuff and the desire of individuals to be “the richest in the world” that kills. What respective societies refer to as “success” is in fact excess and will lead to that mass death.


In the great scheme of things it did not take humankind long to turn California into a wasteland. Here I refer to the “European” version as the first nations peoples lived there for thousands of thousands of years and it was still deemed a paradise when the Europeans arrived with their “Civilization” and “Capitalism”. It took those Europeans only 2 centuries to wreck the place the vast amount of that destruction occurring in the last 50 years.


Initiated by wrecking the original inhabitants – our California Genocide of historic proportions, assault by a million cuts, virtually forgotten even though not that long ago. Fuhgetabout the monuments, we have whole towns, such as Fremont, named after notorious Indian killers. Benjamin Madley blames the Oregonians, to a large extent. In some historical stretches, Californians were just as dependent on indigenous labor as they are today, and opposed the exterminationist campaign for practical reasons – while rabid bands of unrestrained unofficial Indian killers would swoop down from Oregon, as hunters of humans. In these hills, countless incidents of recreational genocide played out.

An American Genocide: The United States and the California Indian Catastrophe
by Benjamin Madley

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Thanks for the link. This snippet fairly sums it up (without all the horrible dead-bird pix):

It’s unclear to scientists why the die-off is occurring, and Desmond said it’s possible it was caused by a cold front that hit New Mexico last week or by recent droughts.

Desmond also told KOB the deaths could be related to the wildfires in the West. “There may have been some damage to these birds in their lungs. It may have pushed them out early when they weren’t ready to migrate.”

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Millions of people packed into a devastated, flooded coastal area with no food, and a nation financially ruined and unable and unwilling to devote long gone resources to help just those fools who have decided to hang on to self-deluded grandiosity. No thanks! especially as conditions won’t stop there, and that’s just the 2033ish “warm-up” to the total collapse of the US as a sovereign nation (if it lasts that long, which is increasingly unlikely regardless of 2020 election results).

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Shuckens… I’d vaguely remembered saying that I’d tried the unfrackable, mostly Amish backside of the Alleghenies/ Poconos. But, yep… NYC is where this COVID “survivor’s” fixin to stay, past Sept 30th, Nov 3rd… past the next several waves and MAGA maniac massacres? My choices were based on my being a rust-belt hillbilly, so: water, REAL food, hep FUNNY, self-effacing, sweet folks. Baroque and Punk venues, diversity, organic hop ale, legal dope, used book stores, museums… that kinda stuff? Mustn’t cherry-pick?

(I’d been the first to post both ProPublica and NYT links, so was curious to see folks’ observations and opinions?)

Might as well enjoy the end you select for, unfortunately, just because those things exist now, doesn’t mean they will exist 5, muchless 10, years down the road. Most of the issues you mention are available in much more near-term future climate friendly areas, long-term climate friendly is dependent upon too much information that is not yet available. We focus mostly on near term climate friendly as “staging grounds” in northern Washington, Idaho, and Montana, to survive the national and global collapses with minimal interference. What we do longer term (30+ years) will depend upon how the collapse of the US and Global states shake out and regional climate zones evolve over that near-term future.
Best of luck to you and yours, until recently I had chosen to stay closer to California and the Pacific NW for reasons greatly similar to the argument you make, but I no longer see States surviving the breakup of the US, and see the fall of our nation greatly accelerated regardless of which fascist corporate party is in charge, by the actions of the last handful of decades that have not just been wasted, but have actually exasperated our situation.

Just back from our flu shots. I’d worked 2-3 times a year over 3 decades @ mills in Napa, occasionally in Portland and not infrequently in Fontana, CA. But, my partner’s from San Diego, she’d lived in SF and Humboldt, so she’s always feigning SHOCK when firestorms engulf the verdant little paradise of her youth. It just plain scared me. The info I’d mentioned about the west face of the Appalachians was from the same folks who’d been predicting polar vortices, slowing of the Gulf Stream, clathrate fireballs and climate migration before retirement there… among the gun tottin’ dominionist III% MAGA types. Mighty puzzling predicament, alrighty?





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Too many good comments to reply to, and as one of those science-reading so-called ‘doomer’ types with a degree that has ‘and Sciences’ on it, I absolutely object to that label! The real Doomers are those that profit in keeping their money pipelines going and status quo in place, and are gleefully willing to unleash their violent dogs to maintain whenever threatened with reality.

So it goes.

As for overpopulation mentioned by sekhmetsdaughter, I am SO glad I chose to not have kids. Nor did my younger brother. Or my cousin Yvonne. Or my cousins by another of my mother’s sisters Laurel and John. I did, however, raise three stepkids. I read Limits to Growth when it came out. Made an impact it did.

And now we’ve got hurricane Sally heading for the overbuilt Mississippi River outlet again. And the first S named one ever I think, and there are a record FIVE storms spinning in the Atlantic that will be heading in. Or is it a tie with the record? And the US has major drought but they are still growing COTTON in the Arizona desert…and mega-fires in the West just continue to burn, and wasn’t there a few tornadoes that just landed somewhere to my southeast somewhere? Oh, and militia dumbass Idaho the next state over is now evacuating I understand; just heard that on KYRS Community Radio. Of course is our neighbor state where it seems like a majority of its citizens refuse to wear masks in a Pandemic…and climate collapse isn’t even on the radar. Wonder how those evac centers are going to avoid the ‘superspreader’ effect, eh? Oh wait, that’s right, Covid is going to go away like a miracle! I keep forgetting that so Idaho evac centers don’t need to worry their pointy little heads over that potential problem…

SuspiraDeProfundis, as to running to Canada where it’s ‘cooler’ than down here, their border is closed due to the Pandemic. I’m between Spokane and Northport on your border. But a couple of years ago we here in these mountains were just choking out on falling burnt forest particles and swirling clouds of smoke from the giant BC burns. It was actually worse than the current Oregon forest smoke cloud because it lasted longer…but then the Oregon fires aren’t out so maybe that comparison will change.

But yesterday there was a sun above me and it hit 82’F in the afternoon. First day without a tiny blurry red ball that was giving out no heat through the billowing smoke clouds. Today there is sunshine again, and a blurry yellow glaring disc up above the property, but the light is still definitely red tinged. The air is still listed as ‘Hazardous.’ Luckily the garden is in pots and rolled inside since last Thursday when the worst of this Oregon cloud piled in. Funny that the shop is better sealed up than the house, very little smoke getting in much less particulate matter visible floating in the air inside. Swamp cooler going to filter the air as I am doing with two more both upstairs and down in the house. Amazing how well a wet filter in an old metal floor fan/swamp cooler cleanses the air. I can breathe easier in the shop than in the house I think, but some of that may be because the shop is full of green growing sweet smells this time of year…

The bad thing about knowledge of future events based on science is that…I know this property in the mountains 40 air miles south of Canada will at some point burn off in a wildfire. It’s been close twice, 8 days ago and the Carpenter Road fire of a few years ago, and the collapsing climate continues to get dryer and hotter here, and the bark beetles grow ever more prolific because the winters don’t get cold anymore. Or at least cold like it used to (-30F) that would kill off many of the larvae that had a generation born every summer…instead of like now allowing two or more generations a year and no death freezes in winter any longer. The industrial logging operations continue unopposed by any meaningful regulations, and there isn’t any real snowfall any longer. Used to be 4 feet of pack all winter at my elevation, from November and it wouldn’t melt off until April. And the first freeze was always around Labor Day and the last frost was sometime in June. None of this happens any longer.

Alpha_Null: You’ll be happy to hear that I’ve had birds back since yesterday, just a few different species like small mountain finches to larger breeds. I have seen zero Ravens, crows, hawks, eagles of any kind for a week,the big birds have flat disappeared. Even with the sun out and less visible gunk in the air (even though still under a Hazardous Particulate Alert) I see few birds actually flying by but I’m only looking out the windows (east & south facing) now and then and don’t catch any but horizontal flyers. I was watering under the 40 yr old apple tree (Jonathons) earlier because the apples are shifting to red after the frost we had during that giant freak monster Canadian windstorm 8 days ago. Which caused the first ‘normal’ frost we’ve had in years! Go figure. But at least there were a few birds showing back up in view. Enough little ones that I had to replenish the suet feeders in the tree, and later I looked out the window and a family flock of turkeys were gamboling in the sprinkler but they scattered back into the woods when I went out to move it. The little birds don’t seem as frightened of me as htey stayed in the wet grass just keeping an eye on me while hunting bugs brought up by the water. They weren’t about to miss out on fresh food!

I’ve got family and friends all over NorCal, northern Mendo through Arcata, and through Oregon. A family of fellow snowboarders in central Oregon are evac’d but I haven’t heard any more than that. So far their property hadn’t burned. Stepkids in Mt. Shasta, wildland firefighters for FS, bet they’re busy and pretty nervous as that forest is due for a burn, too, as they won an award for being ‘Tree City’ here a few years ago…

Traker, you pretty much said why I moved here 16 years ago. Enjoy the end you select indeed. The Doomers have won, haven’t they? Damn it all anyway.



The events happening now in California remind me of the lyrics in Hotel California, where some dance to remember the past that was, while others dance to forget it.

Hey. I rarely comment here, but I do read every day and I want to tell you how much I enjoy your comments. You see that our problems are not partisan unlike a few others who think that once Trump is gone everything is going to be okay. Or back to normal like what we had under Obama was normal.


Yes I know about how prone Canada is to those same fires. As i stated we have just been lucky this year. My own niece lost her home to that Ft MacMurray fire.

When I commented on peoples fleeing to Canada it was after reviewing that map linked in the article where it indicated the most “preferable” areas to live in would shift to the North and middle regions of North America. This does not mean those places will not be prone to warming but just that they will avoid the worst of the natural disasters be they those fires, or hurricanes or tornadoes or flooding or just the heat.

One thing I have to say about heat as opposed to cold. I have been in winter conditions where it blowing snow and -52C. Miserable indeed but you can dress for it.

I visited California once and then over the Mountains into Nevada and it was +100 F every day. That was absolutely unbearable. I guess people get used to it but I think I would rather put up with cold then with that sort of heat.


Best get used to it? Whomever wins in the States, WE all lose. Why “Planet of the Humans” was banned & panned.


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