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Whistleblower's Lawyers Say Trump Has Put Their Client in Danger as President Publicly Threatens 'Big Consequences'

Assuming you and @Callmeskeptical aren’t burned out by now, I have a more general question on the Hunter and Joe Biden aspect to this story. What are the conceivable crimes that could be discovered? Either Ukrainian or US law. I’m assuming nobody killed anybody (outside of the death from war which is bad enough but nothing to do with Hunter). I can’t stand that we have a world where Hunter could get paid for no expertise, but I’m not gleaning the kernel of why anyone is proposing there is even anything to investigate. Could Hunter have bribed politicians in the US or Ukraine? What else would he have done that would be illegal?

I’m also interested in the conversation we should be having on how to change the law so this is illegal or at a minimum agreed that you get kicked out of the Democratic party if caught. I can imagine where you have to pledge to recuse yourself in certain conflicts of interest and well if you are running for president or vice president maybe an ethical party just won’t let you unless you can talk your direct family members out of conflicts of interest.

I will respond to this great post by you tomorrow. I’m exhausted. Really interesting stuff and I have a lot more questions too.

But Jebus, we have to stop meeting this way. :slight_smile: We’re going to wear out our keyboards! Tell you what - if you want to learn a little more about me, go WAY up thread here and see my rather LONG and personal response to Pony Boy about his 1969 mini skirt debacle.

If you do Facebook, you can find me at the Benton County Community Rights Coalition FB site that I manage. Same icon as I use here at CD (Big Fish trying to catch little fish).

In the posts at BCCRC you will find my icon somewhere in the posts. If you click on that it will take you to my home page. You can private message me from there. In the alternative, you can request to join the BCCRC group. The request comes to me to approve. I can then go to your home page and private message you with more contact info. Sound doable?


I was thinking I might have had some memory lapse there concerning my father’s service in Hawaii. I have been to Hawaii five times during my eighteen years in the ‘patch’ here in western Canada, and Maui was our first visit, along the Khlei coast. My dad was I think at Puʻunēnē (word of mouth).

I snorkeled at KaneOhe as I remember, on Oahu. I’m going to try and get out some old pics and stuff - been a long time.

"There were two airfields built in Maui; Kahului which became today’s Maui Airport and Puʻunēnē in central Maui being home to the largest U.S. Naval Air Station of the war."


Looking fwd to your reply - I’m not on Facebook, but will follow up on your other suggestions.

Here’s why the ownership scarcely matters. Hunter and all of the other board members of Burisma served all shareholders, not a single owner. Yes, corrupt oligarchs are in control. Which, sadly, is a blanket statement I could make about pretty much everything Ukrainian. And clearly, an influential “owner” of Burisma who Zuesse tries to portray (unsuccessfully) as being out of the picture remains Mykola Zlochevsky – his daughter is on the Board. and aren’t we talking about sons and daughters on Boards?

And here is why the correction is important: Zuesse revises his “hypothesis” of how Hunter got on the board. Zlochevsky names the Board members, yet Zuesse “hypothesizes” that he was acting at the behest of Kolomoysky…because, according to Zuesse: “A motive for Kolomoysky in this might have been so that Zlochevsky, and not Kolomoysky, would be the public face of the company if and when the Obama Administration would press for investigation into possible corruption in the company’s recent past.” Nonetheless, Kolomoysky is hounded from a prominent government position thereafter “in a power struggle.” Well how much power could he have?

That correction does not fill me confidence that Zuesse actually know who owns/controls what. Or, more importantly, that it matters.

Zuesse then goes on to state that he wants both men to submit depositions. Because we need to get to the bottom of what he just spent 10,000 words going in circles about, while trying to sound authoritative.

Finally, thanks for that link to the Robert Parry article. I’m pretty sure I read it at the time it appeared. One of many articles going back literally decades that soured me on ByeDone.

I would surmise that the crimes Hunter is alleged to have committed encompass bribery, insider trading, tax eveasion, and a litany of technicalities. In any case, it sure would be nice of Rudy to explain this under oath.

Also, Hunter did/does have some expertise. He is a partner in fairly prominent consulting/investing group. I’m sure the name Biden helped him access clients and connections. I’m not a fan of blatant nepotism, but it’s not illegal. Hunter’s drug problems have been well publicized, but out of kindness and generosity I’ll hope and presume he’s put them behind him.

On “the conversation we should be having:” Liz Warren was asked directly about this on camera a few days back and for once she didn’t have the weasel words to explain her thoughts on nepotism – she was clearly caught flatfooted. Later that day, her campaign issued a statement saying that she would be fine with her VP’s child getting a nice gig. Then, in true Liz Warren fashion, she claims she’s exploring a statute that would prohibit such nepotism. Stay tuned, I suspect she’s waiting for Bernie to guide her next move…

Ted Lieu was asked about it on camera, too. He was completely fine with Hunter Biden’s position. Corey Booker was asked last night on the PBS NewsHour – he squirmed and basically declined to comment.

A disclaimer: I have benefited from nepotism to some extent. Never to get a job or financial gain based upon anything I wasn’t qualified for, but certainly referrals, information about possibilities, and a foot in a door. Perhaps that could better be characterized as putting a network to use – and believe me, I’m not in Hunter Biden territory.

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One more thing: Props to Callmeskeptical for living up to his handle and doing his homework.

I welcome any and all sources of 411. I squirrel away their viewpoints to see who is painting the clearest picture as events unfold and new facts emerge. As a noted skeptic, I trust nothing, yet I dismiss nothing.

So far, that’s gotten me nowhere. Heh.

Hi Dara,

Let’s just look at the basics timeline - I’m not going to go into anyone’s qualifications or anything like that - though I can, if you want; but, that will have to be a couple of weeks from now.

2013, December - Joe Biden and son, Hunter Biden, fly on Air Force Two to Beijing, China. Ten days after they return from China, Hunter Biden and his business-partner, Devon Archer, receive $1.5 billion from the Chinese government for a small private equity firm, Bohai Harvest RST, which Hunter and Devon direct; and, they subsequently make huge fees managing this money. Joe Biden later says he knows nothing about this deal…never discussed it with Hunter.

2014, January 27 - A recording is made and subsequently released (likely by the Russians) of Asst Secretary of State Victoria Nuland instructing, via telephone, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt to get “Yats” Yatsenyuk appointed to run the country as soon as Yanukovych becomes successfully overthrown. Subsequent reports reveal the U.S. spending $5 billion towards this coup. (As an aside: this is a violation of international law)

2014, February 20-22 - The Yanukovych government is overthrown in a violent coup, resulting in over 10,000 deaths.

2014, February - Obama appoints Biden as the U.S. point man for the new government in Ukraine.

2014, March - Devon Archer (friend and business partner of Hunter Biden) is appointed to the Burisma (gas company) board.

2014, April - Hunter Biden is appointed to the Burisma board. Over the subsequent 14-month period, $3.1 million is deposited into a Morgan Stanley account marked ‘Robert H. Biden’, (Hunter’s legal name) which pays off to Hunter Biden.
(As an aside there are also reports of other monies entering the above Morgan Stanley account: $1.2 million from a boutique Swiss bank account for an untraceable LLC that’s been implicated in money-laundering in ten countries; $145,000 from the son of the former prime minister of Kazakhstan.)

2015 - Viktor Shokin becomes General Prosecutor of Ukraine. (There’s continuing argument regarding whether Shokin was a threat to Burisma and, thus, to Hunter Biden’s gravy train; but, I’m not going to go into that now).

2016, March - Biden tells Ukranian President Petro Poroshenko that if he does not fire
Viktor Shokin, that the US will hold back its $1.8 billion in loan guarantees.

So what laws have been broken?

Firstly, I"m going to cop to John Solomon’s recommendation:

Today, two questions remain.

One is whether it was ethically improper or even illegal for Biden to intervene to fire the prosecutor handling Burisma’s case, given his son’s interests. That is one that requires more investigation and the expertise of lawyers.

The second is whether Biden has given the American people an honest accounting of what happened. The new documents I obtained raise serious doubts about his story’s credibility. And that’s an issue that needs to be resolved by voters.

But, then, I’m going to give you the following to consider:

  1. Unless Hunter Biden has broken some financial securities laws, I doubt there’s much he can be accused of, other than capitalizing on his family’s name. He’s not a government employee, so he’s not subject to any federal ethics codes. I could point you to a couple of articles by Peter Schweizer, which suggest there may be some serious criminality in Hunter’s China deal; but, SkepticTank would likely be very unhappy with the articles coming from Breitbart News.

  2. Joe Biden, however, appears to be, at least, ethically challenged. Joe Biden’s actions during Hunter’s China deal and with respect to General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin should be investigated for possible violation(s) of the Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Executive Branch, 5 C.F.R. Part 2635, especially with regard to the following:

Synopsis of Subpart A - General Provisions

  • Employees shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that they are violating the law or these Standards of Ethical Conduct.

Synopsis of Subpart E - Impartiality in Performing Official Duties
Consideration of Certain Personal and Business Relationships. Even though his disqualification may not be required under subpart D, an employee should not participate in an official capacity in certain matters without first obtaining specific authorization if persons with knowledge of the relevant facts would question his impartiality in those matters.

Matters Covered. The matters covered include a particular matter involving specific parties if the employee knows that it is likely to affect the financial interests of a member of his household or that one of the following persons is a party or represents a party in the matter:

  • A member of the employee’s household or a relative with whom the employee has a close personal relationship;

Synopsis of Subpart G - Misuse of Position

Use of Public Office for Private Gain. An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain or for the private gain of friends, relatives or persons with whom he is affiliated in a non-governmental capacity, or for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise. In particular, an employee shall not use his Government position, title or authority:

  • In a manner intended to induce another to provide any benefit to himself or to friends, relatives or affiliated persons;
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Thanks for all that detail. Should I conclude that in this case Joe Biden is in violation of the CFR and he needed to recuse himself from all things having to do with Ukraine? That still doesn’t get to the matter of writing law that prevents Hunter Biden from even taking that job. I’d like to think this is possible but I am not a lawyer. It’s funny how Warren answered the question on whether Hunter could do what he did under her new anti corruption measures and she said no at first but then had to backtrack (just like the rigged 2016 election comment).

I’m sure this story isn’t ending anytime soon. Catch you on another thread.

That’s precisely how I see it.

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Copying @SkepticTank

Dara, SkepticTank,

Smoking gun?

Joe Biden ‘Personally Paid $900,000 By Burisma’ According To Ukrainian MP In Bombshell Admission – Oct 9, 2019 - ZeroHedge

Ukrainian MP Andriy Derkach revealed on Wednesday that former Vice President Joe Biden received $900,000 from Burisma Group for lobbying activities , citing materials related to an investigation.

Via Interfax:

Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden received $900,000 for lobbying activities from Burisma Group , Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada member Andriy Derkach said citing investigation materials.

Derkach publicized documents which, as he said, " describe the mechanism of getting money by Biden Sr. " at a press conference at Interfax-Ukraine’s press center in Kyiv on Wednesday. - Interfax

" This was the transfer of Burisma Group’s funds for lobbying activities , as investigators believe, personally to Joe Biden through a lobbying company. Funds in the amount of $900,000 were transferred to the U.S.-based company Rosemont Seneca Partners , which according to open sources, in particular, the New York Times, is affiliated with Biden. The payment reference was payment for consultative services," said Derkach.

Derkach also puiblicized sums of money transferred to Burisma Group representatives - including Joe Biden’s son Hunter.

(there’s more in the article)

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Copying @SkepticTank


Investigation Of Biden-Enriching Burisma Opened Months Before Zelensky Even Elected: Report (Incl Video)– Oct 9, 2019 - ZeroHedge

A new report from recent Fox News hire John Solomon tosses gasoline on the dumpster-fire narrative at the heart of an impeachment inquiry launched after a CIA officer filed a whistleblower complaint, alleging President Trump abused his office by ‘pressuring’ the president of Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter for corruption.

According to Solomon, a new document “shows that Ukrainian officials had opened a new probe into the firm linked to Hunter Biden months before President Trump’s phone call with that country’s leader.”

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Thanks for the 411

Solomon’s story is old news. But I’m anxious to see if the Zero Hedge “bombshell” has legs.

10 years back, I used to visit Zero Hedge every day. But then one bombshell after another fizzled. And the libertarian slant started to get a little silly. Anyhoo, even without this bombshell, ByeDone’s campaign is imploding right on schedule…

ZeroHedge is relatively new for me…I think I’ve been watching that site for less than a year, now. What I like about it is they pull articles from all over the place, both right and left, perhaps to bring as many people to their site as possible. From what I’ve read, the site has been profitable right from the beginning. Not surprising, I guess, considering they came from Wall St.

I’m curious, also, as to whether anything develops. Even if the Ukranian prosecutor passes all of the documents (the MP states exist) to the DOJ, we’d still have to see whether the DOJ wouldn’t simply bury the issue.

I’m wondering whether Biden’s campaign is imploding. I spoke with a mainstream Dem this morning who went to see Biden last night; and, this Dem was all psyched up, saying that Biden killed Trump at this meeting. Sounds like everyone who was at that meeting is still solidly behind Biden.

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ByeDone’s poll numbers are sinking.

Zero Hedge is fun. But prone to over-the-top breaking news that ends up meaningless.
I say that as a former day trader looking for tips and buzz. Unreliable yet addictive.

The DoJ wouldn’t bury the docs. Barr is personally involved in an “inquiry” into the 2016 election improprieties right now:

Ihor Kolomoisky is now linked to Giuliani’s buddies in Ukraine dealings.

Rudy apparently warned Zelensky to steer clear of Kolomoisky and his associates.
I wonder if Rudy knew that Mr K was formerly Mr Z’s boss. Anyhoo, the plot thickens: