The thing is, I see no evidence that this ideology is growing. It just seems that these horrible people are emboldened, and the right wing has fed this. This should be challenged, but I have to say, unless the economic trajectory of the country is radically changed, I think this could spread. People always bring up Nazi Germany, but don’t often bring up the fact that Germany was completely economically wrecked by the WWI debt that was forced on Germany, which Keynes warned about. They don’t always mention the hyperinflation in Germany in the early 1920’s or think about why that was happening. There is a famous picture of a woman starting a fire in a fireplace with a stack of bills, which probably lost 10% of their value from the time she got the bills and lit the match. Read Michael Hudson’s “Superimperialism” on what happened to Germany economically after WWI. Radicalism, anger and alienation from the system is not going to go away if macroeconomic trends continue, and neither of the two major parties are willing to break with the trajectory Reagan set us on. That is a problem, and it is also one of the reasons why people are very supportive of the left’s positions on almost every single issue. My biggest fear is that the left grows and these types of groups are then used strategically to fight against the left, which is essentially what happened in Italy after WWI and what happened after the German revolution was finally put down in 1923. Whatever the case though, if we don’t radically change course economically, dark times are ahead, and I am not even going to address the environmental aspect of all of this.
Ironically, FoxNews has been having a field day portraying the left as violent:
That was June. What are they saying today (I refuse to pollute my mind)?
@JoanRobinson, the reassuring thing is that “these types of groups” are almost entirely unorganized. There’s no way they get mobilized without an immediate issue like the removal of a statue.
And tiki torches are on sale nearly everywhere!
I think you are totally right that it is a minority, but I am less certain the resentment has to do with economics, at least in the way we’d like to think. Martin Longman at Booman has written in detail about the demographics of the last election, but the distribution of these folks and the message of “for us, not them” makes things difficult for progressives to say the least. If they think black people are lazy, if they don’t think Hispanic people pay taxes, then they aren’t going to be responsive to more left economic policies, which tend to be about inclusion and fairness. This is also why Trump prefers to fight on culture war turf.
I am not saying that the above analysis applies everywhere to everyone, etc. But in my little world, I do think there’s something to it. I was surrounded by people telling me Trump would stop their tax money from going to “illegals” for food stamps and healthcare. Sadly, many of the people saying this were folks I work with, middle to upper middle class white people, not working class folks.
Whatever the case, it sucks to see.
I think that race and the things you mentioned are factors, and I think that these groups of people have always been in our society. I do think, however, that if things continue to get worse for people, that you could see these groups grow. The worst thing that could happen is what you see with some European fascist groups, where they do propose ideas often associated with the left, ideas that are popular and could solve some of our economic problems, and then blend that in with xenophobia and nationalism. To this point, the right wing has supported deeply unpopular economic policies that have made things worse. If the left were to grow, I could see some powerful interests supporting these groups as a counterweight, as they did in the past in some fascist countries. I could also see things getting worse economically, especially when the economy goes through a deep recession, and you see these ideas mixed with some of the left’s economic ideas. Like I said though, I don’t see any evidence that these groups are growing, they’re just louder and coming out of the woodwork. If people though do feel alienated from the political system and the two parties and don’t vote as a result, then groups like this and the more traditional right wing will have disproportionate power.
Fox News has been trying to do this more and more frequently. Ironically, the people who get their information from Fox News, “Christian Broadcasting” and Breitbart have become even more paranoid and angry, believing themselves persecuted and threatened by leftists, humanists and secularists.
This difference in perception has troubling potential, as they are also the NRA’s base, not to mention being Trump’s most unshakable base.
Please don’t underestimate them. This was about much more than the statue!
With the Trump presidency as the backdrop these bigoted assholes think they can exert their flawed ideology on others with renewed strength and passion. The 1st amendment allows them to protest. It also allows a counter protest to point out their flawed ideology and that it won’t be tolerated in civil society. And violence broke out; this is what happens when hate festers over many years and generations and children grow up in families that encourage hating the “wrong” kind of people. The south lost the war and slavery was a big part of the war, it also was about the south to be their own state and have all the perks that come from slave labor and the according commerce. It’s time to give it a rest, teach children that hate isn’t OK and encourage a peaceful existence.
Peace, The Ol’ Hippy
Would you feel the same way if the hate filled speech was directed at you personally, as
It is towards Mexicans, Muslims, African-Americans, North Korean, Jews … Homosexuals or Women?
This is not only hate speech this is an effort to create intolerance and hatred for those who
are “other” … that is other than white males.
And if you look at the history of those kinds of campaigns, most especially by organized patriarchal
religions, you see that the campaigns work and that they do result in violent episodes against Jews,
against Homosexuals, against Women … and Muslims which we are already seeing … but also
against Mexicans or anyone who may look like a Mexican.
There are many areas still across this nation where this kind of campaign for intolerance will be
Do you not realize that there are a lot of wealthy people in the US who profit from war
and want to ensure that we remain a divided nation?
Our Founders protected and enriched and empowered those Elite Males, saved and
protected the system of Slavery for them which guaranteed the Civil War which split
the nation into two camps of hatred which still benefit Elite Males today.
Do you realize that any number of times there have been attempts by our government
to create events to suggest that African-Americans were involved in planning a race war?
That our government was involved in the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.?
Do you not realize that very wealthy people in the US and internationally recruited Hitler
and arranged for the re-arming of Germany. That they funded Hitler through front
companies, cashing American dollars in for gold to be shipped to Hitler?
And long before it was over, they were arranging to move the ex-Nazi soldiers out and
to the US; they were shipping the gold back to the US with the help of the Vatican; and
they were ensuring that the Fourth Reich would rise again … ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Do you realize how many faked “false flag” activities the US has been involved with?
See: Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip (200,000 ex-Nazis), Operation Gladio
Hitler and Nazism didn’t “just grow.”
Hitler was recruited by very wealthy people who also arranged the re-arming of Germany
and funded Hitler through front companies run by Prescott Bush/Allan Dulles and run out
of Sullivan & Cromwell, Dulles’ legal firm. Read something of this history and the temporary
interruption of it when Bush and Dulles were investigated by our government and the front
companies (among them Holland America Line) shut down.
Like Hitler’s Germany we have been controlled by very violent people who arrange physical
threat to protesters – and murders, assassinations, torture.
We did not “get rid of it.” We defeated Germany only because of the strength of the Russians
who were our allies at the time. But we did NOT defeat fascism.
We no longer have a Bill of Rights and one very clear sign of that is that the right to peaceful
protest was disappeared long, long ago – Kent State but one example.
Two years before the end of WWII, Nazis-higher up’s in Hitler military were visiting our Pentagon
arranging deals. Mockingbird was being drafted by Cord Meyer/later CIA and the program to
destroy our press has been run out of the CIA… at that time by Allan Dulles.
The companion operations to Mockingbird are Operation Paperclip which involved 200,000
ex-Nazis being brought into the US with the help of the Vatican … and they were used to found
the CIA, funneled into the FBI and other government agencies – and to “hot spots” around the world.
Operation Gladio ensured that ONLY right wing governments would be permitted to rise in the
nations over which the US held control after WWII – Germany, France, Italy, Japan … and I’d also
add the US, Greece, and the UK.
You also have absolutely NO leverage over your right wing elected officials –
but you do still get to vote on hack-able electronic voting computers which were put in place 50
years ago (1965) and which immediately began delivering unbelievable results proclaiming right-wing
Violence creates violence and empowers the violent which is why the White Supremacists should be
stopped here and now.
Of course it was about more than the statue, but they can’t organize even around that enough to make a point.
Remember that Dylann Roof didn’t go to Mother Emmanuel to kill Black folk (‘some of his best friends are …’). He went because he thought such an egregious act would push Black folk over the edge to start attacking Whites, and then he and the tiki torchers would be the victims. But it didn’t work, for Roof or for those who went to Charlottesville.
I’ve never been more ashamed to be an American than as I am presently. Why can’t our society get along? We have descended to a new low. My grandfather fought the Nazis in Germany during WWII. If he were alive to see this atrocious violence from today, he would be greatly troubled. Yes, these people have the constitutional right to assemble, but we have to draw the line when it comes to hate-speech. Call it a “slippery slope.” I don’t care. But we can’t allow this cancerous alt-right movement to advance their cause.
For all those who like to go on “liberal” comments sections and rant about how baby boomers elected Trump, and how despicable they are, look at the picture and tell me if you see your grandfather there…
That is exactly right, and not for the sake of the neo-Nazis, but for the sake of rest of us who can see them in broad daylight. No more shadows for these thugs, and we all get to see Trump’s base in action. The right to speak on the one hand is the right to be informed on the other. Here’s hoping the light of day never dims on these assholes.
Pushing political violence is a sad way to go, especially for anyone here.
Plus, it’s a poor way to suggest changing government for the better.
And, currently the insane people running our government also have control of
our MIC and NSA which is spying on us every day –
And CIA now has it’s own Air Force, including drones.
If you have suggestions for wresting this control from the hands of the insane,
let us know … but otherwise you are encouraging “gun owners” to their doom.
Violence only breeds more violence –
We need the courage and determination to sacrifice our own lives in non-violence.
As well, everyone here knows how to stop cooperating with Elites and Capitalism and
that would be a good beginning.
I’d feel precisely the same way and here’s why:
Free Speech is enjoyed by everyone. If I want mine, I have to defend it for everyone.
Turning hate groups into martyrs for free speech makes heroes out of them. No thanks.
Do you think giving the government the power to ban speech will give liberals more or less opportunity to protest?
Just curious, Greenwich: Are you in favor of laws that outlaw flag burning?
“Unfortunately most Americans are so poorly educated that can’t even give you the dates for WWI and WWII”. What?! STEM is the way to go! To hell with those liberal artsy fartsy and social sciency “disciplines” (except for economics)! We need engineers, natural scientists, and more engineers and natural scientists! And, business majors, lots and lots of business majors! Who needs those woosy liberal arts/social science types. All they do is prepare people for participating in society and democracy. Pfft, waste o’ time. Gimme’ “stuff”, ask Republican and Democratic politicians alike. If you educate people in these disciplines, well, they might be able to criticize politicians in an informed manner, and that wouldn’t be good. So, historically, socially, politically, ignorant white supremacists at .UVA, so what? Hell, what UVA needs to do is close down those liberal arts and social science departments (except for the Department of Economics). And, closing these departments, the money saved can be put into building up the business school.
One hopes you are speaking tongue in cheek. Remember, Thomas Jefferson founded the University of Virginia. I would guess Jefferson favored the Liberal Arts.