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Why Has Israel Banned Jewish Leftists But Not Members Of Nazi-linked Groups?


#26

It is the big lie, that if one is against the Israeli government, one is anti-jewish. This big lie has been used on us that if you don’t support the wars, you are anti-american. That you don’t support the troops in those wars. This has been used for too long.
One can sympathize with the ave jew or palestinian for what has been done to either. Bibi’s and his party’s desire for the greater Israel of over two thousand years ago are driving the current situation. Instead of realizing that a homeland for both people is needed, he would make sure that only his people had one. Most jews do not wish to inflict the suffering they have had onto someone else.
If it wasn’t for the anti-jewish sentiment in the US and europe stretching to Russia, we would not have this problem. All those countries decided that to get rid of the jews, they would create a jewish state which would steal the land from other people. And thus the current situation, that in order to give the jews a home to get rid of them, others had to lose their home.
So I feel for both people, used by the western powers in their hate for either people. Jew or arab, neither is tolerated by the ‘white’ race, both are hated.
In the US Jews are 2nd in hate crimes (gays are 1st now, jews use to hold the number 1 position), it shows how the US has historically tried to get rid of the jews. And now also the muslims in the US.
The fundamentalists will tell you that they love the jews, but that is a lie. What they love is that according to the book of Revelations, Israel must be created before the 2nd coming in which when christ comes back, the jews will either convert to christianity or die. It is the same convert or die that those christians have been using for many centuries. That includes the rest of us also, convert or die.


#27

Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.

In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life…Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”

JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
New York Times December 29, 1878
Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.

Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.

Jews had lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza until they were ethnically cleansed from those areas in 1929.
During the week of riots from 23 to 29 August, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs and 339 others were injured,
and now Palestinians oppress Israelis

Running over Israelis is oppression.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression.
Shooting Israelis is oppression.
Firing rockets at Israelis is oppression.
Blowing up Israelis is oppression.
Throwing rocks at Israelis is oppression.


#28

No one would have been displaced if Palestinians had not tried to exterminate the Jews.

The day after the UN Partition Resolution in November 1947, some racist, xenophobic Palestinians started a genocidal war to exterminate the Jews. Haj Amin el-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem – “I declare a holy war, my Muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!”

The war started with Palestinians attacking a Jewish bus driving on the Coastal Plain near Kfar Sirkin killing five and wounding others. Half an hour later they ambushed a second bus from Hadera, killing two more. Arab snipers attacked Jewish buses in Jerusalem and Haifa.[19]

Wars create refugees!


#29

Let’s talk about now. Evidence from the 19th century cannot come up to modern standards. We have clear evidence of Zionist oppression of Palestinians today. Caterpillar Inc., headquartered in Deerfield IL, is reported (Wikipedia) to be the world’s largest seller of construction equipment. I’m sure that equipment does a lot of good, but it includes armored bulldozers (who else needs armored bulldozers?) that are used to destroy Palestinian homes and centuries-old olive groves. This is now. This is a reason to divest from Caterpillar. This is BDS.


#30

JackGreen,

You repeat a commonly proffered (but erroneous) myth about Palestinian refusal to live with Jews. The fact of the matter is that Jews had been living alongside Palestinian Arabs (both Christian and Muslim) for a very long time. Your mention of the presence of a sizable Jewish population in Palestine implies that you know this.

And while Zionists like to point to this long-term Jewish presence, this presence was a result of the actions of the Islamic Saladin, who encouraged the Jewish re-population of Jerusalem after capturing it in 1187, and then by the Islamic Ottomans thereafter, notwithstanding Zionists’ often blatant Islamophobia.

What changed all this was Zionist Project of the late 19th and early 20th century, and the “immigrants” it funded openly declaring that they intended to forcibly create a separate religiously exclusivist state in their place of refuge. The Zionist Project did not begin in 1948, and your mention of 1920’s shows that you know this as well.

This is the problem with the Zionist narrative, and why it is such an insidious and intractable obstacle to peace.

It intentionally seeks to obscure the main cause of the conflict, i.e. the land grab done without the consent of the indigenous population, with half-truths (myths if you will) like your post about the Palestinians’ alleged refusal to live together with Jews (despite centuries of evidence to the contrary).


#31

Palestinian terrorists use the cover provided by the olive groves so they can sneak up close to Israelis and murder them.

People who are under attack need armored bulldozers.

You want to divest from Caterpillar to stop Israel from destroying Palestinian homes.
Israel destroys homes of Palestinian terrorists to stop them from murdering Israelis.
What both you & Israel are doing is collective punishment.


#32

There’s nothing in Zionism about using force.

Land grab?
Evidence that Zionists had stolen even one square inch of land before 1947 when racist Palestinians started their genocidal war against the Jews?


#33

Bull. The Israelis claim the land and plant their own groves. Or they put their wall between people’s homes and their groves and then declare them abandoned. The casualty lists are grossly asymmetrical, and not toward the poor Israelis.

Nope, the Presbyterian Church (USA) worked within shareholder processes for 10 years with Caterpillar (and Motorola and H-P) before, having presented the decision to the General Assembly and receiving an overwhelming vote of the commissioners, divesting.

You’re talking koolaid.


#34

JackGreen,

Notwithstanding your repeated claims to the contrary, the Zionist Project did NOT begin in 1947. It began as the brain-child of mostly 19th and early 20th century European Zionists who wanted to create a Jewish state in a land where the overwhelming majority of its indigenous residents for the past 2000 years were not Jewish.

Accordingly, it should come as no surprise that the concept of ethnic cleansing (euphemistically called “population transfer”) came to be embraced by nearly ALL shades of opinion in the Zionist movement, from the Revisionist Right to the Labor Left.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story637.html

As stated by Ben Ehrenreich:

“The problem is fundamental: Founding a modern state on a single ethnic or religious identity in a territory that is ethnically and religiously diverse leads inexorably either to politics of exclusion (think of the 139-square-mile prison camp that Gaza has become) or to wholesale ethnic cleansing. Put simply, the problem is Zionism.”

Israel was created by intentionally displacing the indigenous Palestinians, and that displacement continues to this day, aided and abetted by those who continue to justify it.

And for arguments sake, even if we regard 1947/1948 as the “starting-point,” the lands that were “given” to Israel by the British and/or the UN are only rightly “given” if you accept that the British and/or the UN had a greater right to the land than its indigenous population.

I find such claim a refreshing admission (implicit that it is, of course) that the Zionist Project is the successor colonial endeavor to that of British.

Whatever one may think about the claim Palestinian Arabs may have to Palestine, the Zionist claim that any Jew (even a European or American one who converted just yesterday) has a GREATER right to the land than these indigenous peoples is the height of ludicrousness.


#35

Divestment is collective punishment.
It makes no attempt to distinguish between guilty and innocent.

What casualty lists?


#36

Evidence that even one Palestinian had been ethnically cleansed before racist Palestinians started their genocidal war against the Jews?

In 1929, Palestinians ethnically cleansed Hebron & Gaza of their Jews.
In 1948, Arabs ethnically cleansed the West Bank & East Jerusalem of their Jews.
ZERO Jews were left in Gaza, the West Bank or East Jerusalem.
Israel could have ethnically cleansed all the Arabs from Israel, but Israel didn’t. There are now 1.6 million Arabs living in Israel.


#37

bkswrites,

Apparently, JackGreen doesn’t think there have been any Palestinian casualties.

That is an interesting spin-off on their myth about “a people without a land, a land without a people.”

When one is indoctrinated with such myths, it is but a small step to ignoring the casualties or humanity of such “invisible people.”


#38

JackGreen,

You make it sound as if the Palestinians had no reason to resist the Zionist Project or the newly created Israel (1947/1948), and having “lost,” must now live with the consequences.

But if I try to 'partition" your land without your consent, and you resist, who really “started” it?

Can it really be said that your resistance legalized my taking because you had the temerity to use violence?

Despite the Zionist claim that the Palestinian resistance is to blame for the creation of Israel, it should be noted that most Zionists have always believed and declared that the Jewish people had an inherent and inalienable right to Palestine.

Religious Zionists have stated this in biblical terms, referring to the divine promise of the land to the tribes of Israel. Secular Zionists, on the other hand, have relied more on the argument that Palestine alone could solve the problem of Jewish dispersion and virulent anti-Semitism.

But, let’s be clear here, NEVER was the consent of the indigenous population ever seriously taken into consideration by these Zionists, the Europeans or the UN.

Chaim Weizmann stated, in 1930, that “The rights which the Jewish people have been adjudged in Palestine do not depend on the consent, and cannot be subjected to the will, of the majority of its present inhabitants.”

To blame the resistance to such unilateral foreign dictation for the land grab that followed is simply inaccurate.


#39

That doesn’t follow.

By casualties, do you mean people hurt or killed?


#40

Palestinians were killing Jews in 1919, 1920, 1921, 1929.
ZERO land had been taken by the Jews.


#41

In light of their treatment of the Palestinians, Zionists calling BDS “collective punishment” is the height of hypocrisy!


#42

JackGreen,

You either have a reading comprehension problem or are being deliberately obtuse.

Good day, sir.


#43

I am a Zionist, but I have never treated any Palestinian badly.
In a previous post I said: "What both you (bkswrites & Israel are doing is collective punishment.)
So it’s not hypocrisy for me to condemn BDS as “collective punishment” because I have condemned Israel for collective punishment.


#44

“The casualty lists are grossly asymmetrical”

About 111,000 Americans were killed fighting Japan.
Over 2 million Japanese were killed.
About 18-1 ratio.
Does that mean that the Americans were the aggressors?


#45

Yes war does create refugees, which we have ignored for both people.
Yes palestinians attacked after their land was stolen. It is what most people do when the homes they had lived in are taken from them. The jews attacked many villages and drove hundred of thousands of palestinians away from the homes. About 700K palestinaians kicked out and 400-600 villages emptied by the Israelis.
Killing five people is not an excuse for a war to drive all palestians out of their homes. It is also not genocide, most palestinians just resented the stealing of their land and want it undone. It was the same tactic the americans used against the native americans, steal their land and when they fight back, it is an excuse to commit genocide. There are few people who would tolerate the stealing of their land. They tend to fight back, not give up meekly and accept that their land is taken.
If it hadn’t been for the bigotry of the US and what is called ‘western civilization’ against the jews, this would not have happen. Their hatred and not wanting jews to live in their countries was the driving force to steal land from the palestinians and give it to the jews.
Oh and when that attacked happened, the british who controlled the area refused to do anything to stop the violence and protect the jews. Which put the jews into a difficult situation where they had thrust unwanted in land already owned.
And one more point, jews had always lived in that region peacefully with the arabs. There were many jews who either had stayed there after the romans or came back to live there after the christians persecuted them. The anti-semitism was all from christians until 1947. And now christians say they are the best friend for jews when the whole idea is that the jews will start the 2nd coming with the final war. And then the jews will be killed or converted. That is not being a friend. It is using people.