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Why Soldiers Might Disobey the President's Orders to Occupy US Cities

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/06/13/why-soldiers-might-disobey-presidents-orders-occupy-us-cities

Yeah. On the other hand, they might not, like those other times.

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a couple of brown noses talking about not following orders!

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First, these are navy guys. The navy has its marines to assign when needed.
Second, the photo has prison guards behind the soldiers, who are wearing the wrong emblem on their arm. These three are not special force. Maybe to impress the press?
Three: the soldier on being brought into a town or city to restore order has no, - NONE -, info that this is an illegal order. The soldier does not have first hand info, nor does his sargeant or platoon leader.
Four: I have violated posse comitatis myself - so i know what i am talking about here. Active duty and the best armed soldier ever. Protecting little old black ladies marching from their curch to the county courthouse in protest. They had never been allowed to vote.
Last weeks Georgia election for walk ins at black neighborhoods is the same situations now. Make sure they do not vote.

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This is the type of story where you wish you could have direct communication with the authors.

“Of course, the mere fact that a military member worries about the constitutionality of an order cannot be a decisive reason to disobey. It is usually the role of those higher up the chain of command-often civilian leadership-to determine whether an order is constitutional.”

I disagree with these statements. If a lower ranking member is charged with violating the constitutional rights of a U. S. citizen, using the “I was just following orders” defense shouldn’t/won’t work in a court of law. Are those “higher up the chain of command” going to come to the defense of a charged enlisted man/woman in this type of case? Not even remotely, you will be “on your own”.
These authors apparently are blind to the fact that it was civilian military leadership that put the members in the position they were in, in DC last week, that could get those lower ranking members in constitutional trouble in the first place.
Instead of “might disobey the President’s orders”, how about “must disobey the Presidents orders” in these type of situations on US soil.

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It would be really swell if many soldiers would not obey orders to illegally invade and occupy cities all across the globe.

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I disagree.
The soldier does not have first hand info about the riot / vandalism situation in some city or town. He gets into his vehicle and hightails it to the scene.

Above, I wrote about protecting black protesters from 13 KKK armed sheriff deputies - certainly outside of any written law you can find. Aren’t ya happy that they had been infiltrated and their potential violence was overcome by a MASSIVE show of force. Maybe seven. six riflemen with rocker arms / diamonds and one rookie…

You are correct about the enlisted soldier being hung out to dry.
The first Ly. in dress blues who checked me had no name tag.
He gave me no orders, nor had I received any from anyone previously.
On my own.
The opposites did not twitch and so survived.

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The article mentions that in My Lai, a soldier and 2 others took a stand against the murdering of old people and children by US forces. Hugh Thompson did this, but he did land his helicopter down threatening to machine gun the soldiers if they did what Calley wanted. The story finally came out, but unless people read a lot about that useless war—they might not know. The military did not want to support what Hugh Thompson did, but they had to as news leaked out. And Calley, ended up with house arrest after all and then I think Nixon pardoned him
But it’s not just this incident that is horrifying—it’s what happened to the crew of the USS Liberty, that makes me wonder WHY anyone would join the military, since the military brass so often seems not to value those soldier’s lives at all. That USS Liberty incident was brushed over and ignored----------why would anyone become a soldier knowing that the soldiers lives so often are valued as less than the supposed enemy? : (

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Amen to that! If military personnel are such “ethical” people then why are they so complicit in committing US war crimes all over the world? The only reason this is such a big deal now is because now they might be called upon to commit similar crimes here at home that they have been committing overseas for as long as I can remember. The typical US double standard of “those people way over there in (fill in the blank country) don’t have rights and deserve our consideration, but people here do”.

Keep the military out and the police un-militarized and tyranny is made the harder.

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Trump is a Constitutional Criminal in all respects.

Any fool that believes he is a leader, is as delusional as Trump is.

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They don’t need prearrival first hand information, all they need to know is, when put into the situation of confronting peaceful protestors on US soil, that they must uphold the constitutional rights of those protestors. That means no aggression towards those protestors. It’s pretty simple really, any one scoring high enough to enter the military, should be able to understand. The fact the authors want to create a grey area here, where there is none, is problematic IMO.

Peaceful protestors
are a different. And I do recollect that the second row, the third row and even further back have been filmed throwing plastic bottles of water, rocks, at the line of police - and the cops did not fire rubber bullets or disperse tear gas = patience.

But, we darn well know that a few criminal types have created arson / looting / burglary within or at the fringes of the peaceful protest. DC wrongly critics the protests and does not sort out the facts. I prefer to go after the bad guys.

Folks get upset when they learn that police / fbi / atf / army in plain clothes are within the protest march. However, being on the ground, right there, provides far more accurate instant info than watching a camera shot at some headquarters or listening to a cable TV reporter interviewing passer byes.

Maybe relying on new technology is laziness, not good management of a situation.
The students peaceful protest march in Baltimore a few years ago is forgotten and the pharmacy burning by arson is highlighted. This allows government to hammer.

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We must remember our heroes:
Hugh Thompson, Lawrence Coburn, Glen Andreotta

On march 16,1968 those three landed a helicopter between Vietnamese civilians and American troops led by Lt. Calley in a village called My Lai, thus stopping a massacre.
Their ability to do the right thing,even at the risk to their own lives, should never be forgotten. May their memories live long after those who led the US into evil are forgotten.

RIP Hugh Thompson d. 1/6/06 at age 62 of cancer.

Hi RDD:
Thank you for the names of Lawrence Coburn and Gen Andreotta, as I never knew their names. I just couldn’t believe what I was reading of how the military people who were originally informed and then those all the way of the chain—did not seem to care. :frowning:

That would be my HOPE.
But I am concerned about the Quality and The ELEMENT of those serving in Our Military these days.
I am not sure just WHERE their Allegiance Truly Lies!