And if it's shut down right away, where will those 50M people get electricity from?
Well, when I read an article with this kind of information... I am completely freaked out... I feel like we have just right over top of our beautiful planet, just like it was road kill... really, that is our attitude as a species... we have to get to where we want to go...so, hey, if that squirrel... or fox(yes, in the Southern Tier of NY ... little fox are being run over ... on the highways... now... never saw that until the last couple of years..)... we do not consider what we do... we do not know what we do.....
This article really does freak me out... I have been, attuned to the nuclear issue for a while now... since I first heard Helen Caldicott... and Harvey.... How do we beat this? there are those that want MORE OF THESE THINGS.... That statement about radiating the Great Lakes.... that is mind numbing....most people do not ever give nuclear power a thought... they do not give POWER a thought... where it comes from, or any aspect of it...I know many people who just feel that they can only think about
-getting up and ready for work
-driving to work (rural)
-picking up kids from child care
-taking care of aging parents
-dealing with a disintegrating marriage
- dealing with a growing teenager
need I go on? So, when I bring up these kinds of issues.... they give me a blank look.... or they get mad... .and think I am a nut... there is a little bit of glimmer of understanding with some people these days with climate issues... but, it is just a glimmer...
So, my point is... that unless we have MASSIVE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE understanding the seriousness of something like this nuclear plants crumbling and and what that means... AND that we cannot afford to make more of them... AND that we have to HURRY UP AND SHUT THEM DOWN BEFORE FOSSIL FUELS GO BY THE WAY SIDE... we are truly sunk... WE NEED LIKE 80% OF PEOPLE... or something along those lines, to UNDERSTAND what the problems are... and how that AFFECTS THEIR EVERYDAY LIVES... AND THEIR LIFE IN GENERAL... in order to bring down the status quo of NUTS WHO THINK THE EARTH IS A HIGH WAY AND ROAD KILL JUST DOESN'T MATTER....
Who cares about an electrical shortfall? (which is untrue anyway: Solar and Wind can easily supplant dangerous nuke fossils like this one.) Cancer in children means these nuke deathtraps have to be shuttered no matter what.
You may as well ask: "If the wars are shut down, who will buy bombs and drones?"
The answer is that: We just don't care about these military industrial scams anymore, Mairead. They are are curse upon all creatures with vulnerable DNA strands in their bodies. Whether is be DU dust from bombing, or leaky 40year old, unsafe nuke plants.
Don't worry. Harvery Wasserman's are essentially fact free zones and filled with being totally exaggerated hyperbole. A loss of coolant failure at Davis-Besse would have been similar to TMI-2 failure - an event that was serious and extremely costly but the containment worked and the accident had no statistically measurable health or environmental impact on the surrounding communities.
Oh, and typing in ALL CAPS does not help you argument.
And CO2-free electricity at that.
The minimum amount of objective research online shows that this plant is poorly designed, constructed and operated as though there were no tomorrow. It would appear that cavalier dismissal of the concerns is optimistic at best.
Once again, what's done by a small group of persons--in this case those who saw quick profits through "the peaceful atom" are mistaken for the whole of humanity.
These types of blanket indictments keep the teachings and practices ranging from modern ecologists to Indigenous tribes who knew how to steward the earth under a cloak of invisibility.
These generalizations also present a one size fits all representation for all humanity; and in doing so, they manage to hide actual perpetrators.
It's this language of the oblique that's used by commentators to separate the MIC from its brutality, or police from theirs. It blankets over the particular strain of greed that's led to so much wealth being reverse-engineered to the TOP of the financial pyramid by suggesting that THIS is human nature rather than the specific work of specific interest groups who have brought these outcomes to life.
Some people, and actually, a relative few insisted on building the nuke plants. These same interests kept enough local politicians in their pockets to ensure that genuine maintenance of these death traps would not compromise their immediate profits.
The "precedent" that saw banksters bailed out for their own gambles by the public is the same legal strategy that will be used to protect trespassers in all sorts of industries... by forcing citizens to pick up the tab.
Posts like yours pave the way for this moral and fiscal graft. After all, if that same homogenous WE is responsible, than surely all should pay.
I call this message out for industry-style PR, a Talking Point.
Did you mean this: "The answer is that we just don't care about these military industrial scams anymore"?
Who is the We?
And do you think people don't care?
I notice that Mairead has reliably shown up to do the mandatory "pity the poor nuke companies" chorus lines, while The Initiate borrows from many of my former posts--those that delineated the pressures on American citizens as wages are being artificially depressed while all sorts of costs of living inflated--as argument to the always linear-framed "debates" that insisted that whatever the problem (In today's case, it's that of global industrial robber barons and the politicians, media, and courts that they own) citizens are to blame.
At least the entire tag teams are not yet back.. likely because the seeming variety of assorted screen names probably belonged to a relative handful of regular posters. Something along those lines was noted in emails sent out to long-time posters by the Site as it entered into its newest "incarnation."
Maybe this will keep more industry hacks, sock puppets, and assorted shills, trolls, and agent provocateurs away.
Thomas_Jefferson wrote (to Mairead):
'Who cares about an electrical shortfall? (which is untrue anyway: Solar and Wind can easily supplant dangerous nuke fossils like this one.) Cancer in children means these nuke deathtraps have to be shuttered no matter what....'
Do you really feel that suddenly cutting off electrical power to 50,000,000 people is an innocuos event? We're talking about no heat in homes, electrical appliances not operating, and other consequences.
'...Whether is be DU dust from bombing, or leaky 40year old, unsafe nuke plants.'
Of course, a coal power plant puts far more toxins (both radiological and biological )into the air than a nuclear power plant.
As so often, Susan, you fail to read or interpret accurately what I've written.
I hold no brief whatever for the corporate owners. I think they should be stripped of ownership without compensation, the unit evaluated for technical goodness and then either fixed or replaced forthwith, with permanent public ownership following.
Too damned true, John. Would that I lived within walking distance of the Pilgrim nuke rather than the Brayton Point with its 4.9M TONS annual coal consumption.
Wasserman is a propagandist, not a careful distiller of fact. So I'd say there's less need than you'd think to go into orbit except that Wasserman's propaganda tends, as here, to urge acts that would have the effect of increasing greenhousing, which is highly irresponsible at best. So maybe going into orbit does make some sense -- just not Wasserman's kind.
A responsible person might advocate for the nationalisation of all nukes, followed by safety upgrades, operation by people with solid reactor experience (e.g. ex-Navy), plus the immediate instantiation of crash programs to reduce the national (global) energy draw so as to phase out the worst generators as quickly as humanely possible.
But Wasserman is a pot-stirrer, not a responsible person.
"Harvery Wasserman's are essentially fact free zones" Nuclear power plants can not operate without co2 emissions. Without external power source nuclear plants shut down. You are saying that nuclear plants can operate without external power source and therefore produce no co2. The mining and manufacture of the plant itself and fuel rods took no co2 emissions either?
Our power is supplied by the grid. It is so designed that a power station can go off line without effecting demand. This nuke can go off line and leave no one without power.
This plant does not supply 1/6th of the power generation of our country, 50 million indeed.
And what technology will produce that power? If it's coal, that's a net loss for everyone, and much less good than the solution I suggested to Susan.
Could you explain that? I can't imagine what you have in mind.
Davis-Besse produces 879 megawatts of power at peak out put. Last year we added 9,900 MW of wind power to the grid, 10 times this nuke.
To answer your question.... many power plants are connect to the grid, gas, coal, nuke, wind and solar. It is able to lose stations and add stations without effect to the customer.
Sure. Nukes have three power sources. One is from generation through the use of nuclear materials and is the plants output voltage. The lights, water pumps, refueling, cooling of spent fuel pools etc. are run on source two outside power source. Failure of external power source causes a shut down and start up of power source three back up diesel generation. Without power source two or three a nuke plant will not produce power and will become Fukushima.
As the power to start and run a nuke plant comes from the grid it could be coal, gas, nuke or any power source supplying the grid. Over 90% of our generation produces co2 emissions so nukes require co2 emissions in their working process along with each plants particular pollution issues.