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With New Vision for Europe, Rising Podemos Threatens to Upend Establishment


#1


#2

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#3

Good luck Podemos.


#5

Yes We Can


#6

The United States bears full responsibility for both of Europe's problems; the flow of refugees and the tyrannical neocon austerity policies. Both of these events are a result of US military adventurism and the capitalist zeal to permanently cement their status lordship over all of humanity. When one has amassed mountains of wealth one's desire to protect it becomes uncontrollable and the behavior becomes compulsive and incurable.


#8

The anti-austerity won in Greece too, a few years ago. See, where it got them. You cannot dictate the conditions to people, who are holging the purse and whose grace you need to survive. Period!


#12

Change does not come like a lightening strike, it comes as a storm that takes time to build momentum.


#14

The upshot is, that governments as well as people have to live within their means. You and I cannot pay our debt to one credit card by charging it to another. Some of these governments were obfuscating their budgets to get access to more credits and others were hit by putting their investments in expectations of big returns into our mortgage backed certificates, which bombed in 2008.

You do not see our financial institutions compensating them. Ireland, Iceland have made exemplary recoveries from their financial malaises. Spain was well on its way to pull itself out as well, due to the austerity they exercised. Something, you can be sure, the new government will take credit for.
Yes the US dominated IMF is making profits on the loans, which countries need to repair the damage caused by our loosy goosy financial oversights.
But can you expect the citizens of more prudent countries like Holland, Austria and Germany pay for the high living livestyles of some of the southern European nations?


#17

PS: Socialism is about redistribution of wealth and existing assets. It is not a license for irresponsible spending.
Bernie is all for tuition free post secondary education. So am I. But at no time have I heard him offer to pay for the beer drunk at the fraternity parties of the Students.
That is in essence, what some of te southern European nations want. They have lived high on the hog, built up mountains of debt and now they expect the northern nations to pay for it with cuts to the debt they are owed.
That does not compute with me.


#20

And that "more" would be what?


#21

Maybe some of the so-called socialists will switch to Podemos so that they can overtake the conservatives and then lead in creating the coalition that governs.


#22

Wait!

The United States is like 20 trillion in debt. Where is this mountain?


#23

A statement that many find easy to make. But it doesn't account for all the facts.
As a fraction of the refugee flows, consider Algeria. Back 1958-1962 Algeria won its independence from France. Good. The new government in Algeria instituted a sort of Islamic Socialism. Good.... As an example, the many productive vineyards in Algeria were seized and land-reformed, converted to wheat fields and pasture. The value produced was less, but the use was consistent with the people's religious values and the earnings were more widely and equally distributed among the people, = greater equality. Good.
-- After a few decades Algeria's economy wasn't functioning well. The same thing happened with many other Arab socialist regimes. An Islamic rebellion rose among the people, followed by a coup by the establishment and a civil war. (This was several years before GW Bush.) During the civil war hundreds of thousands fled to France.
-- That is one example where the refugee flow can be blamed on France's imperialist projects, not on the USA's.


#24

This provides us an opportunity to think about the meaning of terms such as 'public spending' and 'austerity'.

Some date before 2008 I remember reading a front page article in the Wall Street Journal. Spain was busy building a high speed rail network. Like other nations have done, and was fashionable at the time. All the regions, and many of the cities wanted 'in' on the high speed rail, mostly to get some of that public spending on building it. Now no one hears anymore about Spain's high speed rail. I am sure that nothing is being built to add to it. I am not sure that they are even operating it. (IMHO, high speed rail never makes sense.)

I agree with Golestan that nobody, certainly not Spain's government, can spend what they don't have. Even Podemos sort of recognizes that, and they propose to high tax Spain's wealthy. A policy that many people on this forum will approve of. Let us suppose they enact such a tax, and collect good on it the first year. Question: ¿ What happens the second year? Odds are very good that those rich who are still somewhat rich will have emigrated to somewhere else, much like so many rich citizens of France emigrated, to London among other places. Podemos could, maybe, seize the 'means of production' from the rich, and attempt to operate it for the profit for the people. Many socialist governments have done that. After a while those means of production fall apart, break down, for lack of maintenance. This is currently happening in Venezuela.
-- When spending > revenue can't be continued or faked any more, the spending cutbacks are called 'austerity'. Even an anti-austerity government can't escape spending cuts in that circumstance. The great powers should step back, even accept that a government like Spain repudiates its debt. That still won't solve revenue < spending, and the government will still have to cut spending. (Even a fierce anti-imperialist anti-austerity government like Venezuela and Cuba has run into revenue < spending, and has had to enforce austerity on its public.)


#25

The US desperately needs an anti-austerity movement to have any chance at rebuilding the economy/nation, but even middle class liberals of this generation have no inclination to consider it. Their focus since the 1990s has been on protecting the advantages of the middle class. The US shipped out a huge share of our jobs since the 1980s, ended actual welfare in the 1990s, and pretends there are no consequences. Meanwhile, the economy, and the nation itself, continues to sink. For a range of reasons, we aren't going to see a New Vision for the US. We're just going to keep sinking until we go under.


#26

There does seem to be endless wealth when it comes to war and prison budgets. Things are never so tough that massive annual tax cuts can't be bestowed on the rich. Could be, our priorities are royally screwed up.


#28

Tell that to King George III, Tsar Nicholas and Louis XVI and oh yeah, the former dictator of Cuba.


#29

Sounds like the neoliberal austerity establishments are catching crap worldwide, maybe the heist is about over.


#30

Indebted to whom? Goldman Sachs, the Rothschild's banks? The taxpayers are on the hook to pay back the enormous interest and principal to the richest monsters ever existed on our planet. The rich don't pay because they know the score and the working class are too busy working to pause and realize they are being rapped to no end. The "deficit" is a mind game, a control mechanism to keep the elites elites and the rest of us working harder and harder for less and less.


#31

Sorry mister but your reply is truly out of place and unrelated to our realities today. The USA just in the last 30 years has caused more deaths and homelessness matched perhaps 2nd to events of post WWII. And why? Because WAR = PROFITS.